Posted on 11/14/2006 9:23:30 AM PST by Flavius
Didn't they make the Zephyr a Lincoln this time? What a huge mistake! Maybe they use Fairmont as the next Lincoln to replace it.
They need to scrap the corporate names and come back as LG or something that takes everyone by surprise. Who is LG anyway, the Chinese?
Sometime back in the 70's, the auto makers were forced to design cars that union workers could build without any effort. If it takes no effort to do something, the result is usually junk.
"Sometime back in the 70's, the auto makers were forced ..."
Why is it auto makers were "forced", but when management has the upperhand and screws employees it's free market?
"What kind of car name is "Lucerne"
Possibly just a very poorly-researched one."
See! Another example where the Uninons screwed... oops, nevermind.
GM is #1 in market share in China.
Back in the 70's, the auto makers had a choice of designing cars only the skilled Japanese or German auto workers could build or design cars that the Union auto workers could build without any effort.
Then what are they crying to President Bush about?
"Back in the 70's, the auto makers had a choice of designing cars only the skilled Japanese or German auto workers could build or design cars that the Union auto workers could build without any effort."
Someone once told me that it was the DU'ers that hated Americans.
Seems to me that Honda and Toyota are building high quality cars in America.
Inablity to deal with a union is lazy, inept management, not a problem of the rank and file worker.
Most of Honda and Toyota's US factories are non-union. Nissan has already moved some of it's factories to India because of Union problems here. Back in 1979, International Harvester closed it's Scout/Travelall plant in Fort Wayne Indiana because Union demands exceeded the revenue of the plant. They were also forced to close while they still had enough money to provide a very nice severance package to the same union employees who put them out of business. I know this because I went to college with many of them who were there because IH was paying their way.
"Most of Honda and Toyota's US factories are non-union. "
And the auto makers did what to break the union? Agree to a job bank? Apologize all you want, but management is key in this equation. The path of least resistance is to give in. So management let the UAW ruin their company? I'm not saying the UAW is blameless, I'm saying management did, and does suck.
Your comment about building cars that takes no effort... that definately makes it sound as if it's the worker's fault, that they are lazy and incompentent. I say the workers are human, and human nature is to try to live up to expectations. If you expect nothing, you get nothing.
Honda and Toyota are doing quite well with AMERICANS.
I never defended the actions of management for the big 3, see my post #12. I will however pass the blame around where it is deserved. For years, the UAW has been the guardian of those who quit trying. Somewhere along the line, when it was at it's worst, the cars coming out of Detroit were no longer built well, designed well or made out of quality materials. The designers have always had excellent examples of how to build a better car by looking at what the Germans or Japanese are putting out. If they are not allowed to design cars as good or better than the competition, there must be a reason. If building a better car means more cars sold and more money to be made, then why didn't they get to do it?
They've got plenty to cry about, it's simply a little known fact that the only carmaking division that's turning a profit for GM at the moment is China. Not Europe, not here.
"I will however pass the blame around where it is deserved. "
There's plenty to go around, and no party involved is without guilt. The UAW killed any incentive for workers to strive and be good at what they do. You are correct in saying that because of the UAW, there were compromises in design and quality. Fit and finish suffered because of unmotivated workers.
Management took the path of least resistance. They agreed to stupid demands. They made terrible strategic decisions, and now are hamstrung by past deals, and the ongoing effort to boost quarterly profits at the expense of long term growth. They simply cannot plan for the future.
This all started in the 70s. A mid-70s domestic car was as bad as it gets, (autos with catalytic converters that were not designed for the exhaust restriction of that device).
I love older American cars. I believe in American workers. But it pains me to say, maybe the only way to fix the big 3 is to let them die the death they've chosen.
Funny how once we figure out why it is we say what we're saying, we agree with each other.
The problem with Honda and Toyota is they don't build anything I want.
"Funny how once we figure out why it is we say what we're saying, we agree with each other."
It's amazing how often that happens, staying rational is the key.
Now if my liberal brother could remain rational, I might be able to talk to him again.
"The problem with Honda and Toyota is they don't build anything I want."
I prefer cars, not trucks, or SUVs. Honda's Accord is an excellent vehicle. I drive a Pontiac Bonneville. Why? Well, I got it used, so I got it for a song, and I prefer the American drive. There is a difference. The bad news is, the Bonneville is not an Accord. An Accord simply works, the Bonneville has seen the shop more than once for unscheduled maintenance.
I guess that's the long way of saying there are always trade-offs.
wait? they were already nationalized by the trial lawyer branch of government.
Yes, emotionally overstated. Thanks for the correction. I do think there are more than 3-4 assembly plants for foreign car companies, there are that many in Indiana and Ohio alone, plus, more are being built and/or planned. It really is infuriating to drive a Chevy assembled in Canada and one of my kids drives a Toyota assembled in Indiana. We've basically been beaten on our home court in the auto industry.
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