Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Massacre of Drogheda under Oliver Cromwell (Lessons for Victory in Iraq?)
Christian History Institute ^ | Christian History Institute

Posted on 11/14/2006 8:32:32 AM PST by xzins

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-106 next last
The parallels are probably instructive:

1. Separate Religions in conflict in Ireland.

2. Political intrigue at home undercutting England's Cromwell.

3. Propaganda that even today can't be sorted out.

4. Continued conflict for years.

5. Realization that the initial campaign should be short and sweet.

6. Others.

I'm sure there are dissimilarities, too. One thing that strikes me is that the England/Ireland thing STILL isn't resolved.

1 posted on 11/14/2006 8:32:39 AM PST by xzins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: xzins

BTTT


2 posted on 11/14/2006 8:33:56 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins

Later reading.


3 posted on 11/14/2006 8:43:42 AM PST by Siena Dreaming
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins

This is about the time that my protestant Scotch-Irish family came to America. Ireland is pretty, but I wouldn't want to live there!


4 posted on 11/14/2006 8:44:53 AM PST by TNdandelion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hemingway's Ghost

It strikes me that England, Ireland, and N. Ireland should have some helpful opinions on dealing with clandestine wars and emerging with something similar to a victory.

Hopefully, we can do better than 3 centuries at the task.


5 posted on 11/14/2006 8:45:27 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: xzins
6. Others.

Including, one hopes, a subsequent Glorious Revolution!

6 posted on 11/14/2006 8:47:43 AM PST by headsonpikes (Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TNdandelion

Pretty expensive today.


7 posted on 11/14/2006 8:50:49 AM PST by elhombrelibre (Bush underestimated the Democrats ability to rewrite their history with MSM help.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: xzins

Cromwell put us off the idea of republicanism for good. Never was a country so pleased to restore it's monarchy than England in 1660.

They weren't separate religions conflicting, they were two christian sects conflicting. As for continued conflict in Ireland, from the battle of the boyne in 1690 right up to the 20th century Ireland was largely peaceful - that's nearly as long as the USA has existed!


8 posted on 11/14/2006 8:52:43 AM PST by AngloSaxonChristian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AngloSaxonChristian

I was struck by the role that propaganda played.

It sounded like Cromwell was on the losing end of the information war.


9 posted on 11/14/2006 8:54:30 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: TNdandelion

'This is about the time that my protestant Scotch-Irish family came to America.'

If you use the word 'Scotch' to describe people in Scotland you'll more than likely get a punch in the gob. Scotch is a drink, people are Scots so Scots-Irish is ok, but not Scotch-Irish. So says my Scots brother in law anyway! ;-)


10 posted on 11/14/2006 8:55:33 AM PST by AngloSaxonChristian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: AngloSaxonChristian

<< from the battle of the boyne in 1690 right up to the 20th century Ireland was largely peaceful >>

Actual there was a major uprising in 1798, and localized violence waxing and waning throughout this period


11 posted on 11/14/2006 8:57:06 AM PST by SirJohnBarleycorn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: zot

Cromwell ping


12 posted on 11/14/2006 8:57:10 AM PST by GreyFriar ( (3rd Armored Division - Spearhead))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins

'It sounded like Cromwell was on the losing end of the information war.'

So often the case - those with right on their side usually feel less need for propaganda to support their position. Remember the Iraqi information minister cheerfully telling the media there were no coalition forces anywhere near Baghdad as an M1A2 rolls past on the other side of the river! :D


13 posted on 11/14/2006 8:58:32 AM PST by AngloSaxonChristian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: SirJohnBarleycorn

Belfast had its own "issues" in 1848, 1886, and quite a few other years as well.


14 posted on 11/14/2006 9:00:18 AM PST by Andyman (God loves you just the way you are . . . but too much to leave you that way.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: xzins

No question that the massacre at Drogheda is a permanent blot on Cromwell's reputation. Many have tried to make the argument that you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs, and that Cromwell did what he had to do.

Most notable in this regard are two poems: Andrew Marvell's "An Horatian Ode" and Milton's Sonnet 16 on Cromwell as an instrument of divine providence.

But it won't wash. The murder of women and children is still remembered. The English Civil War, called by some the Puritan Revolution, was a seminal event in world history, but the English themselves preferred to call back Charles II.


15 posted on 11/14/2006 9:00:44 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SirJohnBarleycorn

'Actual there was a major uprising in 1798, and localized violence waxing and waning throughout this period'

There was a fairly major uprising in America between 1861 and 1865 which accounted for more deaths than have died in all the battles of Ireland, but no-one would describe the US as anything but largely peaceful. By the standards of the day, Ireland was largely peaceful for over 200 years.


16 posted on 11/14/2006 9:02:09 AM PST by AngloSaxonChristian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: AngloSaxonChristian
As for continued conflict in Ireland, from the battle of the boyne in 1690 right up to the 20th century Ireland was largely peaceful

Yes, it was largely peaceful during the Famine in 1847 and onward - lots of Irish died while grains were exported from Ireland to the British Empire. Happy, happy, happy. And peaceful.

My people left Ireland in 1850. My ancestor was illiterate and very peaceful. Well done, England!

17 posted on 11/14/2006 9:02:12 AM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: xzins

Funny that nobody is calling for the Brits to pull out of Ireland, quagmire though it is.


18 posted on 11/14/2006 9:04:20 AM PST by RinaseaofDs
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins

I see the parallels here but fail to read any solutions in the outcome.

I prefer Genghis Khan's treatment of Islamic troublemakers - problems solved for his lifetime and into the lifetimes of his successors.


19 posted on 11/14/2006 9:05:36 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AngloSaxonChristian; SirJohnBarleycorn

The tangle of relgious intrigue is also thought provoking. There wered Catholics and protestants, but the protestants were divided. Cromwell, I think, sided more with the puritans. There were a host of Anglicans (in the tradition of Laud) still in England. I'm not sure what the mix of protestantism in Ireland was....my guess would be the same split, and maybe split along class lines.

In Iraq we've got the Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds. The Christians exist but are minor, except for the US Military is predominantly Christian.

The Sunnis trust no one, even though the Kurds are Sunni.

It was a huge tangle with great emotions. I think the tangle still exists, but the emotions (for many) are not overwhelming.


20 posted on 11/14/2006 9:06:00 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-106 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson