KH strike group gets underway for fall cruise (China) [Kitty Hawk]

US Navy ^

[11th_VA]

Anyone know how fast the Kitty Hawk can move?

Back in the day (heading for Gonzo station '79) she could do about 35 knots, but more typical was a criusing speed of about 28 knots.

[raygun]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come across as being smug and all-knowing.

Have you read any of Tom Clancy's novels? That should be a really good primer concerning military/geopolitical insight. I'm fairly certain that up until now whenever Clancy was published here had to have been a resounding collective "bump" as literally hundreds of Clancy novels smashed on top of oak/walnut/cherry desks throughout the Pentagon with bellows akin to: "O.K. WHO LEAKED!?!?!?"

The one thing that should stick in everybody's mind is that the hero of Red Storm Rising is some non-descript weather forecaster who got caught at the right place at the wrong time (or was that vice-versa?). The theme that resounds throughout all of Clancy's novels is not so much the techical prowess of the American military, nor the indomitable spirit of the people at large when faced with an overwhelming and particarly nepharious adversary, but that treachery itself is the one self-defeating characteristic of all losers. Clancy posits the idea that treachery in and of its own accord is the root for failure despite whatever overwhelming odds there may be otherwise. Even if the treachery does not immediately become apparent to the people at large, there are those "Spartans at the pass" that will not give in.

My prayer is that all of us "Sparticans" who "live in the valley" will make good on their sacrifice. I pray this in Jesus' name. Amen.

[raygun]

Pssst (Czech it out at post #68).

[dgallo51]

I wish I had your faith in our military/industrial complex. To be honest, I'm not much of a spy kind of guy. I'm the kind that researches for the stuff spies try to conceal, but enough of that. I have faith in the valor of our armed services, but I am also a firm believer that arrogance gets people killed. Combat is a high risk endeavor…I just want any losses sustained to have contributed greatly towards the accomplishments of the mission tasked. I will give Tom Clancy a read. I could use a break:-)

[Magnum44]

Well, the deployment "cycle" of a carrier has changed a lot since 9-11. In my time, that of Desert Storm, we still operated where the work up and deployment cycle was 18 months. This gave you 6-9 months to "work up" to being fully battle ready, a 6-9 month deployment, and 3 or so months to stand down for regular maintenance. Every three or more cycles you throw in a year long major overhaul in a ship yard.

The work ups start by just getting the ships crew out a few weeks to make sure the plant works, and basic damage control skills and such are well know ( the crew turnover each cycle can be 30-40% ). Back in port a few weeks, then you bring out the airwing for a few weeks of carrier quals and basic flight ops. Back in port a few more weeks, then out for what is basically a combat readiness phase at the ship/airwing level. Mean while all the battlegroup ships are out doing their own individual training as well. Finally in the last three months before deployment, you all go out together for "battle group" phase, where you do combined arms training with everyone and everything. You get a month off and then deploy.

Things are different today. Now deployments last longer, and the workups are more compressed, due to the fact that we have so many obligations overseas. That gets better utilization of the ships, but really takes a toll on crew and maintenance.

[raygun]

I'm uncertain what faith I have in the military/industrial complex. I have faith in the Spartan who is taking a stand in the mountain pass (knowing full well that he and the 299 other elite Spartans that stand with him in the face of 10,000 oncoming troops are doomed). What is valor? What is heroism? In my mind heros are people that act normal in extra-ordinary circumstances (where all extra-ordinary people fall apart). Valor is reckless abandonment of consideration of one's own safety in the heat/moment of danger with the one focus being to save/bring others to safety.

As far as "taking a break" with Tom Clancy, you'd be headed for War & Peace writ large. Not so much concerning the Peace aspect of that, but the intracies, nuances, and interminable detail of War. I'm not trying to dissuade you from reading Clancy, but you absolutely must read his books from first to last so as to discern the spectrum of history. Without a decent understanding of classical history a lot of nuance that is pertainant and germane to Clancy's novels will go right over your head. Eh, one has to start somewhere if they want to become "informed".

If you read his novels with the same disciplin as anybody who reads for knowledge does, i.e., when encountering a word that is unfamiliar (one looks it up in a dictionary), or when one encounters a concept that one is unfamiliar with (they research it at the library), one will become quite learned.

The thing that should be gleaned from Clancy's novels is that the protege of his novels is a Jesuit. Only when you come to know who the fictitional Jack Ryan is will that have any meaning (provided you understand what Jesuit training entails).

There is one stark contrast that is made crystal: the difference between ideology and military training.

While each and every one of Clancy's novels are stand-alone works of literature, you really do need to read them in order (and understand the anachronisms and philosophical concepts that are presented in-between the lines).

[Magnum44]

By the way, in all this speculation regarding ASW, a carrier does not necessarily need to know where the enemy sub is. It is good enough to know where it is not. You use assets like SURTASS, or our own subs, to "clean" an op area before you go in with the high value asset. Then you have confidence that speed, maneuverability, a little deception, etc will keep you away from the threat. When you think your op area may be compromised, you move to a new "clean" area, and put your screen between you and where you think the threat is to catch him as he maneuvers to close on you.

[dgallo51]

As with all great journeys, one begins at the beginning. Thanks. It promises to be both long and slow, but I am persistent if nothing else.

[raygun]

Clancy's novels are a damned great place to start (provided you start with his first novel). You don't have to look up every military principle that he describes, but if you DO have to look up words he uses that you don't understand in a dictionary, and look up various concepts he mentions pertaining to military doctrine, etc., etc., etc. I believe that if you have an IQ above 140, and you get sucked into all that, well, they make great-quality boxes of wine nowdays, and almost no tar cigarettes and whatnot.

The biggest problem with today's intelligence program nowdays isn't that there are insufficient analysts, its that almost everybody working within the system has been "captured by it". What the U.S.A. need to remain a republic are fields on the boots; there are too many boots in higher echelons that don't know what the fields smell like. Once you've felt the sensation of knowing a bullet could tear your mid-section to shreds as you run away...

Does it matter what geo-political diplomacy that it is that may be directly responsible for tearing your mid-section to shreds? The fact of the matter is that you like it (and that everybody is as dependent upon your results as would be the President of the U.S.A. if you'd be skipper of an SSN).

[dgallo51]

I make no claim to an above average I.Q., but I have tackled much beyond my pay grade…I use a dictionary not because I want to, but because I have to. A dictionary is essential to my understanding. I get into the geopolitical realm only to evaluate our leadership.