Posted on 11/13/2006 7:43:42 PM PST by maui_hawaii
This particular Chinese sub,of the 'Song' Class was a D/E boat.Their existing class of N-attack subs are lousy.You are right, it could have surfaced to recharge it's batteries.But then,submarines often surface towards surface group make it a point that they've not been tracked.The Song class is not exactly top of the line by any standards(probably equivalent to a classical German Type-209 boat),so the Chinese could afford to take that risk.
You'll have to explain what RCOH means. It says maintenance nov 11, 2005. My nephew said it was going in for a 3 year retrofit/maintenance some 5-6 years ago, when he gave me and my mother the $25 tour. Weird place, squirrly corridors w/overhead cable trays, a rat maze essentially, then you open still another door and KABAM : there's the ocean in your face. Funny rubber decking, but ideal for my flood road idea...
Carl Vinson is currently undergoing its scheduled refueling complex overhaul (RCOH) at Northrop Grumman Newport News shipyard. The RCOH is an extensive yard period that all Nimitz-class aircraft carriers go through near the mid-point of their 50-year life cycle.
During RCOH, Carl Vinson’s nuclear fuel will be replenished, and the ship’s services and infrastructure will be upgraded to make her the most state-of-the-art aircraft carrier in the fleet and prepare her for another 25 years or more of service.
Consider how much MONEY is invested in aircraft carriers, and yet they are a 1920s/30s concept, as olde as your grandfather. Has it ever DAWNED on anyone in the US Navy that technology didn't FREEZE 80 years ago, that these wonderful ships that did such yeoman duty in WWII are now sitting ducks. I know very well how the chinese will take them all out within an hour, but there's nothing I can do about it, nobody pays any attention to me...
ASW and missile defenses needed rather badly...
I presume you've already read this…
Defenses on subs to be reviewed
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
November 14, 2006
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20061114-123345-3750r.htm
About 35 knots if she wants to, be she will average 20 knots if she is just in transit
How are you suggesting we did this?
They came up of their own accord, either because they wanted to, or because the needed to.
Either they broke something, or they were trying to send a message. It would not be the first time they have done things that send signals while giving away their capabilities. They are telling us what they intend to do if we were to try to intervene in a Taiwan invasion.
Bump! Remember when they sent that agent into the FBI to fork over their blue prints...which announced that they had successfully stolen our W-88 nuclear warhead design?
Chinese submarine enters Japanese waters
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18 November 2004. Tenuous relations between Japan and the People's Republic of China were strained last week when a Chinese nuclear-powered submarine entered Japanese territorial waters southwest of Okinawa.
The intrusion occurred on 10 November, Japanese time (UTC+9). The submarine was quickly spotted by Japan's Self-Defence Forces and was tracked by helicopter as it wandered in Japanese waters for two hours before moving north-west. International law requires a tracked submarine to surface and identify its nationality in times of peace; the submarine did not do so.
Many Japanese officials in the Defence Agency considered the intrusion an act of provocation and "showing off," as the submarine in question was a particularly noisy model. It continued traveling very slowly after being spotted, and remained in shallow waters. The intrustion caused Japanese Self-Defense Forces to go on alert for the second time since the Second World War.
The submarine in question is believed to be a Type 09-1 Han Class attack submarine. It is a nuclear-powered submarine designed in the 1950s and first built in the 1974. This class of submarine is thought to suffer numerous defects, including radiation leakage, noise, and an inability to fire missiles while submerged. Only two of five submarines are thought to be operational. China has recently begun an active modernization of its navy.
On 17 November, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Wu Daiwei met with the Japanese ambassador to China Anami Koreshige in Beijing and offered an apology for the incident, stating that the submarine was on a training mission and the intrusion was due to a "technical error" and was "regrettable." Japan's Defence Agency is studying whether "technical errors" is a feasible explanation for the incident.
Japanese Prime Minister Koizumi Junichiro has publicly stated he wishes to speak with Chinese President Hu Jintao about this and other matters of Sino-Japanese contention at the upcoming annual Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Chile later this month.
Despite the increasingly close economic ties between the two nations, distrust has long exisited between Japan and China. Many Chinese people still resent the Japanese invasion and occupation of China during World War II and Japan's refusal to formally apologise. Japan, on the other hand, sees China as a potential competitor and an increasing threat to its national security.
Japan's Constitution forbids the nation from exercising military strength in matters other than that of self-defence, but Japan's ruling party, the Liberal Democratic Party or LDP, has recently proposed constitutional amendments to give the military more offensive capabilities, among other things.
Which this still leads me to the conclusion that:
1. The Chinese sub was in that place...for what reason?
2. Our guys were at sea for a whopping 9 days (actually less) when this incident happened, so if they were tracked it probably wasn't for a very long time.
3. Other information now says they were not proactively sub hunting at the time, which if anything that means someone was asleep at the switch.
I still think our guys were just out to sea for excercises... were not sub hunting...possibly asleep at the switch to some extent...
The Chinese sub was trying to spy on the war games that were about to take place...
We ran across the Chinese sub, then began to track it...which according to that one article....
International law requires a tracked submarine to surface and identify its nationality in times of peace;
9 days earlier they were in port. They weren't 'tracked' there for sure....
"Now it turns out that the aircraft carrier and its escorting ships were out doing some exercises. I am told they were not engaged in anti-submarine exercises, so they were not looking for submarines. But if they had been, and this Chinese submarine happened to come in the middle of this, then this could well have escalated into something that was very unforeseen."
It is approximately 800 miles straight shot from Tokyo to Okinawa. It is highly unlikely that this Chinese sub went up into Japanese coastal waters....
If they went 10 knots average speed it would have taken them about 3 days to get from port to Okinawa if they went straight there, which leaves about 5 days unaccounted for.
I don't know what they do/did after just leaving port though. Maybe they used a few days to do ______? I don't know. Maybe some Navy people can tell us a typical scenario of leaving port.
The incident though went down out by Okinawa somewhere.
I am not one to make hay of military technology. I don't know enough to comment on the technology aspect of it.
All I'm asking is: are we providing adequate force protection, or are we placing all our hope in a bobbing Maginot Line?
I do think the US should keep the pendelum in the center ala fighting terrorism. We shouldn't neglect our bread and butter.
As one poster put it (and I can't remember who),"terrorism isn't the only game in town"....
No, destruction comes from BELOW. No, not this russian-developed rocket-torpedo with deformable rubber nose; something MUCH faster than that : a torpedo based on a different method of propulsion than ye old rear propeller. Yeah, I told DARPA about it years ago, ignored of course. So be mentally prepared to see our entire navy of slug-slow ships DIE in just one hour...
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