What is going ON here??
Posted on 11/11/2006 5:38:22 PM PST by FairOpinion
A commission of experts appointed by President George W Bush will advise him to abandon his dream of cementing a new democratic system in Iraq and instead tackle the security crisis so that the withdrawal of American troops can begin.
The advice from the Iraq Study Group, a high-level bipartisan panel headed by James Baker, the former Republican secretary of state, will sideline the so-called Bush doctrine of spreading democracy in the Middle East. Mr Bush will meet the panel tomorrow and Tony Blair is expected to offer his views via a video-conference call on Tuesday.
Mr Gates is a member of the Iraq Study Group and has been a strong critic of his predecessor's handling of policy in Iraq and the use of pre-war intelligence. He will provide the White House with the political cover for changes that would have been unthinkable a few months ago.
The Baker panel, which has been charged with looking at all options for Iraq, is expected to recommend a phased US troop withdrawal, timed to accord with deadlines for Iraqi forces' taking responsibility for specific security zones.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
"The current nation of Iraq needs to be broken up into three nations....one for Sunnis, one for Shiites, one for Kurds."
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This is the absolute most damaging suggestion. If that were to happen, Iran would take over ths Shiite part, the Sunnys would rescue and reelect Saddam and continue their pursuit of WMD, and Turkey would probably occupy the Kurd part. The result would be more terrorist nations and WMD.
If that's the case they have already begun their overreaching. We were stunned but not out.
It will be interesting to see how the old crop of dems will control the new ones. Many, I'm sure, that are coming in were not pleased with the handling of the democrat party either.
"They most certainly are..........and they are at work on this forum."
I noticed and have been saying the same thing -- it should be obvious to anyone who pays attention. Yet, people are still accepting everyone as if they were "real conservatives", even though the agenda they are pushing should make everyone sit up and take notice.
The malcontents will never be happy. If the Republicans would do 100% of what they are asking, they would ask for more and different things, and still not vote. They are directly responsible for the current Dem Congress, because they stayed home. They are the Dems' useful idiots. And the Dems are the terrorists' useful idiots -- and we end up suffering for their willful acts and stupidity.
What is going ON here??
Carry on......
Might I refer you to comment 197?
Might I refer you to comment 197?
And just what will this do? IMO it will move the insurgency and "civil war" to Kuwait, etc. Just surrender and be done with it. The driver of the cab I took from BKK Airport was of the opinion that Bush's defeat means the defeat of the Thai government in the South here and the victory of Islam everywhere but in Russia and China. He, at east, wasn't happy about the elections in America. The Thai Buddhists in the South are moving out to save their lives. Bush's defeat has energized the Muslims greatly.
From what I am reading...just on this thread...I wonder how much support he has...
What is odd is that some that are cursing him...are advocting the Bush Doctrine in the next sentence..go figure.
I have posted..and will repeat what I said.
Go by what President Bush DOES..not what is being implied or said he WILL do...I haven't heard any wavering coming out of his mouth....just out of media and others that are assuming that he is just going to hand over the foreign policy of this country to some group...
I for sure will e-mail him about my support...which has "stayed the course"....just like he has.
That resonated with me and brought back a memory.
In 1963 I read The Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater. (Actually ghost-written in 1960 by the grandfather of L. Brent Bozell.) Goldwater criticized the current mania on the part of the US and UN for ending colonial rule in Africa and elsewhere. He was especially caustic on the idea that democracy was exportable and that everybody was ready for it. Due to cultural differences, he felt that exporting deomcracy was a fool's errand. There were simply some societies that were not ready for self-government. Sometimes the best that could be expected was a benevolent despot, and preferably one that sided with us rather than the Soviets.
Goldwater took a lot of flack from the liberal community and the MSM, which in those days was acting as a mouthpiece for the UN. But viewed in hindsight, he was right.
A "nation" of Sunni Kurds, Sunni Arabs and Shia Arabs -- all itching to dominate and even kill each other -- cannot function as a stable platform for democracy.
It's going to happen and Bush nor congress is going to change 3500 plus years of Iranian infighting tribal history. Not to mention we do not have the manpower for this. Our troops are now at best spread thin. If this was the plan for Iraq all along then someone made some major miscalculations on the number of active duty needed and for how long. Had new recruits came in at 9/11 when there was a golden chance to raise active duty troops strength by 100K it might possibly be a different situation.
Our troops have been on a almost constant state of hostile deployments since 1990. The end troop strength numbers have not change except by 20,000 or so since 1996. It doesn't take a Patton to realize how deep in it we are yet no one is calling for doing anything about it except more deployments while wars in Iran and possibly North Korea are a possibility.
We need to bring a military solution to Iraq quickly with prejudice. Let the ashes be a reminder to any nation wishing to take us on over here. You attack us here and in six months your homeland is destroyed over there. On the way home we need to make a bombing run through Yemen and see who's bedded down.
"The bell has been rung with this election. The troops in Iraq heard it loud and clear, they need to come home as soon as practical because the morale will go downhill from Tuesday forward. Their bravery and respect for authority is unquestioned but if we can not win this thing and I do not believe the American people believe it is winnable, then get out of there now and let the Iraqis manage things as best they can. Who knows, if they know we are leaving, they may actually wake up and try to govern their country."
The ISG needs to ponder that as is.
Great post...I agree with all you said.
Are you reading the Koran and learning to bow towards Mecca five times a day yet?
Let's just give up, when the going gets tough. That's what the terrorists are counting on.
Amen to that!
Why do the heavy lifting yourself when someone else will do it? It's illogical, actually. We make the same arguments when liberals want us to provide cradle to grave help to people. If you teach a man to fish, but he doesn't want to fish, then what? Do you heave a sigh and give him all the fish he wants for as long as he needs them? That's what many here at FR are advocating-- giving the Iraqis fish for as long as they need them, even though they know how to fish.
Iraqis want us to leave so they can get on with their civil war over whether it is Muhammad's son-in-law or father-in-law who is the true heir. Nothing we do will convince one group to adopt the other's viewpoint, and, sadly, they take that issue way more seriously than they should.
I understand your point. Of course the Iraqis need to continue the effort, and they have been! Only the MSM could convince someone that the Iraqis have not done so. Most provinces in Iraq are doing very well. But the few that remain in turmoil still need our help and support. If we were to pull out too soon, everything our military has accomplished will have been for nothing. Iraq will be taken over by the terrorists. The blood of innocent Iraqis will be shed (this is a huge understatement), and once again, our troops would have to go back in, start at "square one", and help restore the peace.
We owe it to our troops, and the Iraqi people, to do it right the FIRST time. No, we cannot guarantee that peace and democracy will always prevail in Iraq. Life doesn't give one single person any guarantees let alone an entire country.
I read alot. I read Iraqi blogs, military blogs, and everything inbetween. Millions of Iraqis voted for democracy. It breaks my heart that the Iraqi people support our troops and their mission more than many do here at home. If we walk out on them now, we're all going to be in a world of hurt (another understatement).
I wish people would stop being such wimper-dills....you know the kind...the "if I don't see progress in 6 months, I give up" kind of people. We have seen ENORMOUS progress, and yet that's not good enough for the cut 'n run crowd. To them if it didn't happen yesterday then surely it can't happen tommorrow. They are ignorant to the facts on the ground!
Our son fought in Iraq and he, we, and everyone I know (except one liberal idiot) understands what is at stake here! We must NOT abandon Iraq before they are able to handle their own security!
Another Marshall Tito is gonna be hard to find. I was Yugoslavia in the late 70's on liberty call. A much calmer place than after his death that's for certain.
Our National Security is threatened by all the Islamofacists in that region proclaiming 'Death to America'. We simply took out one unfriendly regime and now we have an ally in the WOT.
Ally is a two way street.
Islamic terrorists are insane but they're not stupid. To attack us now would be to wake a sleeping giant. Even Nancy would have to vote for full mobilization like we should have mobilized right after 9-11.
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