Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: DJ Taylor

I wanted to verify my memory with Gordon L. Rottman first, but I couldn't find a contact email address for him so I'm going to tell you an interesting piece of trivia related to this subject, and hope my memory is good.


I served with a Special Forces veteran of Vietnam in a Texas LRRP guard unit in the 80s, he had received his SF designation OJT, Rottman said he didn't believe it himself at first, but he had to do the verification for his security clearance and it was true, as far as I know that would surprise almost all "wannabe" hunters.

If any one has an email address for Gordon Rottman I would appreciate him giving it to me, so that I can get the guys name, and verify my memory.


91 posted on 11/11/2006 2:46:20 PM PST by ansel12 (America, love it ,or at least give up your home citizenship before accepting ours too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies ]


To: ansel12

What you remember is absolutely true. Up until 1985 Special Forces Qualification was so haphazardly controlled that almost any Adjutant with a mimeograph machine could cut orders awarding a soldier a “3” or an “S” qualification on his MOS indicating the soldier was Special Forces qualified. In reality, only those who graduated from the Special Forces Qualification Course at Fort Bragg, NC and then gained a total of three addition Special Forces MOSs were actually Special Forces Qualified, but unless you looked closely at a soldier’s records, you couldn’t tell who was really qualified and who wasn’t.

There were quite a few of these “Paper Qualifications” in the Special Forces community when BG Joe Lutz pushed the Special Forces Branch through Department of the Army in 1985, and Special Forces, for the first time, had its own branch with it’s own MOSs. With the now activated Special Forces Branch, Special Forces MOSs converted as follows: 11B became 18B, 11C became 18C, 12B became 18C, 91B became 18D, 05B became 18B, and 11F became 18F.

It was show and tell time. Now, no matter how long a soldier had been in Special Forces, for him to be awarded an 18, he had to produce his training records. Paper qualifications weren’t accepted.

During this “Show and Tell” transition to the 18 Career Field, it was discovered, to no one’s surprise, Special Forces Reserve and National Guard units were predominately “Paper” qualified, very few had ever been formally trained in a Special Forces MOS. They were, for the most part, conventional 11B, 12B, 91B, etc who had been accepted into Reserve/Guard Special Forces units and then OJT’d their Special Forces Qualification. After they had participated in three Special Forces operations, their Adjutants cut their orders for a 3 or and S, and just like magic, they were Special Forces Qualified in the eyes of the Army.

That all ended with the 18 MOS Special Forces Career Field. Now, to be considered Special Forces Qualified and receive an 18 MOS, a soldier had to prove he had been formally trained at Fort Bragg. There were some exceptions to this, and one was if a soldier had served with a Special Forces unit in Vietnam and had OJT’d his Special Forces Qualification in combat. If he had done that, his “Paper” Qualification was accepted and he was awarded an 18.

It’s a strange twist of fate that I happen to know of several of these combat OJT Special Forces Qualifications and one of them, like Levy, was assigned as a base station radio operator at a Special Forces Training Camp near Long Binh in 1970. But that’s where the similarity ends. He had orders assigning him to a Special Forces unit in Vietnam, and he had orders awarding him an S, and apparently Levy has neither.

As for the man you knew in the Texas Guard with a “Paper Qualification,” (actually we referred to them as “Paper Flashes” as the Flash they wore on their berets was only paper.) I’m sure he got his SF Qualification the same thousands did before 1985, he got it the easy way.

DJ Taylor


93 posted on 11/11/2006 4:20:06 PM PST by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies ]

To: ansel12
Ansel12: ...received his SF designation OJT...

I do know a man who recived his SF qual roughly as you described. Just like there once was a correspondence course which formed part of a path to SF qualification for reserve component soldiers, there are some SF soldiers who were awarded the SF designation without attending SF school, unlike Navy UDT/SEAL sailors who ALL went to a course.

Soldiers who OJT'd in specific ways included: 1. Soldiers in the earliest days of SF before there WAS a course; 2. Soldiers who volunteered for a tour in SOG after a first tour in non-SF recon units, such as LRRP/Ranger elements. 3. There may have been others, as, at some times in the past, commanders at the Colonel (O-6) level had authority to grant (as they still have authority to YANK) SF Qualification status.

However, once this qualification is granted it is invariably noted in the serviceman's records. No other school suffices. Any OJT that was real, resulted in orders granting Skill Qualification Indicator "S" or Prefix "3" or various other indicators that have been used on the records over the years. The soldier's file would contain both an indication that the SQI (prefix, etc) had been granted, and a copy of the orders.

Any OJT producing an SF Qualification would be while assigned to an SF unit. A set of records that do not show any assignment to a Special Forces unit are ipso facto not records of an SF soldier -- ever.

The soldier's DD214 (discharge papers) also indicates his SF Qualification. I am unaware of any exceptions since SF was established in 1952.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

105 posted on 11/11/2006 10:32:38 PM PST by Criminal Number 18F (Build more lampposts... we've got plenty of traitors.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson