Posted on 11/08/2006 7:21:48 PM PST by SW6906
This is a repost from 2001. Here is the original (locked) thread
Sad to say, the march of anti-constitutional laws continues to quicken the pace. Today tens of thousands of law abiding citizens face becoming "armchair felons" because they are not gullible enough to comply with mandatory registration and licensing of long owned firearms. Collectors have been raided on bogus pretexts, then arrested for "paper violations", and had their assets seized. It's a shame, but in many jurisdictions your AR-15 or SKS is an "outlaw rifle", and you are at risk every day that you keep it in your house. It is doubly a shame because these are exactly the types of arms the founding fathers were speaking of when they wrote the 2nd Amendment...
So if you will not register or turn in your weapons, and are reluctant to keep some of them in your house, what is to be done with them, to preserve them for use at some future date? Many folks just say "bury them" but this is simplistic and may be self defeating, for a buried gun may be rusted, forgotten, or paved over in time. The "art of the cache" is then the subject of this lesson.
First we must define a few terms, for there are several classes of caches. A fighting cache or ready cache is one where a rifle or other weapon is kept, sighted in and with the correct ammunition and cleaning gear, available on short notice. A long term cache should be able to lay undetected for years if need be. An Escape and Evasion cache will contain a complete getaway kit in addition to a firearm, against the day that the owner finds himself pursued by enemies.
An E&E cache will contain the items listed in Squantos' E&E kits, as well as hair dye, "instant tan" lotion, scissors, a razor, a nylon windbreaker and a hat for a quick appearance change. Cash, gold, a space blanket, a poncho for shelter and a pistol would also be included. All of these items can be kept in a .50 caliber metal ammo box available at any army surplus store.
What arms to cache? If you are considering caching any weapons, it makes sense to cache both your black "outlaw" firearms and your cheap surplus military rifles, the Enfields and SKS's and so on. The former may land you in legal trouble, the latter are inexpensive and may best prove their worth by waiting hidden and silent for the moment of need. Pistols also should be considered, particularly inexpensive surplus police revolvers. There is no other type of firearm which may be handed to a complete novice with confidence that the new shooter will be able to use it effectively on the first try, and you may someday be in the position of arming a complete novice. Millions of non-shooters may become ardent RKBA advocates in the years to come and you should consider arms for them as well as for yourself.
Where should you locate your cache?I will consider three broad areas: rural caches, urban caches, and underwater caches.
The Rural Cache: In the countryside, cache options abound far beyond the cliched hole in the ground, although that option is not to be left out! In the boonies, look for old private junkyards, every big farm has at least one on the back 40! Rusty forgotten tractors, cars, refrigerators and farm equipment are made to order, full of hidden nooks and crannies where a rifle or three may be inserted, yet remain readily available. Of course, hiding firearms in and around old iron negates the chance of technical detection. Abandoned farmhouses, barns, ruins, and foundations provide countless hiding places, as do small caves, worked out mines, and graveyards. And of course you can just bury your package, preferably near or around some clutter of old scrap metal to provide magnetic camouflage.
The Urban Cache: In cities and towns you must be a bit more creative to find a good cache location which will remain undisturbed for years. Abandoned factories and warehouses, forgotten steam tunnels, scrap yards and neglected corners of basements and attics of some buildings may be used. You need to find a quiet dark out of the way corner were you can remove some tile or blocks or panels to create a mini vault, then hide by replacing the cover. Old large diameter pipes or pump casings may be used as is. Sometimes it is possible to create a cache by adding a bogus utility box or fake run of pipe which has no other purpose than to look old and nasty, and hide a gun or two.
The Underwater Cache: Arms may be sealed into a PVC pipe, then sunk for a great cache. Ammo packed inside around the arms will provide enough weight to sink the tube. Tie a strong nylon or monofilament line around the middle of the pipe, and lower the cache under an old rotten abandoned dock or wharf. So much junk accumulates under old docks that one more slime and barnacle encrusted pipe section will attract no attention at all. Tie the top end of the line to a piling down under the waterline, the entire line will soon be so nasty that no one will ever touch it, except you!
Packaging the Cache: No matter where your cache will be located, you should go to great pains to make sure that it remains sealed and moisture proof. As mentioned, large diameter PVC pipe fits the bill perfectly. If you want access without cutting open the pipe, you can buy an end cap with a threaded center. For really long term storage, release the springs from your magazines and operating rods where possible. A chunk of dry ice dropped into a watertight package and allowed to "steam off" before sealing will purge out the rust producing oxygen. Store bought silica desiccant bags may also be used. Wherever ammo is stored, beware of using penetrating oils, as in time they may deaden the primers.
Plastic five gallon buckets with sealed lids may also be used, as well as heavy duty "white water rafting" bags, marine "flare kit" boxes and containers, surplus military ammo and ordnance boxes and many other types of containers. Where possible, for long term storage seal the lids with a bead of silicone glue.
Where tight cache space is a consideration, you may have to merely wrap your weapons in plastic. In this case use the biggest thickest heavy duty lawn and garden bags you can find. After placing the arms inside, suck out all the air you can, twist the end, put a few strong wires ties around the neck, fold it over, and put more wire around it again. Then do this again inside another bag. Long rifles which will not fit in a bag will have to be wrapped in industrial plastic sheeting, taped up, and kept in a fairly dry location. This type of packaging may be considered where a weapon may be in a "fighting cache", ready for use on short notice.
Locating Your Cache: Nothing is worse than stumbling around looking for a cache so well hidden that you cannot find it, so give a lot of thought to the landmarks you will locate it by, and write them down! Don't put the entire location on one piece of paper (for security), just the final directions which will not make sense if the paper is compromised. Remember, your cache area may look very different in different seasons, so choose landmarks which will stand out in summer foliage or winter snow. It is a good idea to take compass bearings from several permanent landmarks, as well as pacing the distances where possible. Or you may locate the cache by aligning it with an old wall, or between distinctive boulders, just make sure the features are permanent: bushes and gullies may disappear. Be alert to construction around your cache, and if the survey stakes go up, move it out ASAP. You may use GPS coordinates, but consider that GPS may be degraded or turned off at any time, and mark your location the "old fashioned way" first.
Cache Security: When you look for a cache location, consider that you will need a "cover for action" to explain your presence in the area. If you jog cross country, go on hikes, bike or four wheel drive you have it made. The cache location must have terrain or vegetation cover to conceal your loading and unloading it: forget the "cover of darkness", in this era of NVGs that is a thing of the past.
Before returning to a cache do some counter-surveillance: loop around the area looking for the "watchers" who may be staking it out, or a new "utility box" which may contain a remotely operated camera. When finally approaching the cache, don't go directly to it, first "fish hook" your trail, double back and observe your own path in to check for followers. Finally, walk right past your cache and make a "false unload". If you are taken down at this point, they may not find the true cache, and your "cover for action" (eg.: taking a leak on a routine hike) may pass muster. Only when you are truly sure of your safety should you go to the cache and unload it.
In addition, you should leave "tell-tales", small innoucuous secret marks which will tell you if anyone has disturbed and replaced your cache. It is a favorite trick of security forces to put tracking devices into cached weapons in order to follow the guerrilla back to his base and catch the entire band. A tell-tale may be a bit of thread or a pebble etc. placed in such a way that if the cache is disturbed it will break or fall out without the security forces noticing it.
In Summary: I hope this has been an informative and thought provoking article. Even if you do not think it is necessary to cache any weapons (or an E&E kit!) at this time, you will at least be able to take walks in the woods to scout out some likely sites for future use. Look for sites at various distances from your home from a short walk to a day's drive: don't keep all your eggs in one basket. It is a good idea to "load" a cache with some old tools just for practice. See if they rust, see if the local eleven year old boys find them, see if you can get in and out of the area without being seen. Practice makes perfect, so try some "dry runs" today so that you will be a seasoned pro if and when it becomes necessary to cache "the war iron" for real and for keeps.
And don't forget to BLOAT! Buy Lots Of Ammo Today!
Dead Corpse, why take a chance with chamber pressure? There are zillions of .308 diameter bullets out there for use in the .308 Win, 30-06, etc.. Save the Russian diameters for the Russian cases.
BTW, your first link only shows what I have stated earlier: it is acceptable to load a .308 diameter bullet into a Russian case (but not the other way around). Your second and third links reference only the Russian cartridge.
For anyone who will listen, NEVER load the larger Russian bullets for use in the smaller .308 caliber rifles (.308 Win, 30-06, 30-30, etc.. If ain't worth it.
A force that is in a fight, or which anticipates someday being in one, has a need for reserves. Unless the mere existence of those reserves is specifically intended to have a deterrent effect, it is best that the reserves remain unknown to the actual or potential enemy (and even if that's the goal, those reserves need to be secure from seizure or destruction). A good example of this is the Soviets, who had over 100 divisions that the Germans never knew about before invading in 1941. When the Germans had destroyed, captured or made combat ineffective the 180 divisions that their intelligence said the Russkies had, while the Russians were still fighting like mad, they realized that they were in deep trouble.
In a situation with guns in civilian hands, there are clearly records out there about most guns sold in the last 38 years, plus any older ones that were sold as used through FFLs. In a worst case scenario, one would have to assume a knock on the door by a dozen or so vested and well-armed individuals who had a list of all of your guns. Then is not the time to say that they were lost or stolen or destroyed or sold, etc. - it is the time for handing them over or dying along with your family. If, however, you wanted to live to see your kids and grandkids grow up, and to see them live in freedom, you'll have previously acted like a 2-legged squirrel and put something away for a rainy day. Since acting alone is usually less effective than acting in concert with like-minded people, it'll be time to organize and make plans - and only later will those plans be implemented and need equipment to do so. This'll also be a time for keeping one's head low and not coming to anyone's attention - hence the need for secure reserves that are available much later than when a bunch of JBTs comes to your door.
So, ignoring my simplistic response click the following:
Scroll down to: "Military cartridges in 7.62 mm calibre "
Good luck,
Jim
With respect, I disagree. The time to cache is when there is no immediate threat, or one looming distantly on the horizon - i.e. when you've got the time to find one or more good locations, pack things up the right way, add to them occasionally, etc. In this context, it also gives you the ability to acquire things off paper while that is still legal.
Picking the correct time, tactically and strategically, to fight, and the best method of fighting (i.e. with words, strikes, or "other methods") is a matter for consideration in the future, based on the facts and circumstances THEN. Running off on the spur of the moment to snipe at a bunch of armor-clad JBTs who can call in lots of back-up in a few minutes is a quick ticket to visiting your ancestors, and does little good to those you leave behind or the cause of freedom. Our enemies have had patience (mostly) and have thought through their scheme over a period of decades - and we should learn something from that.
762x51 NATO = .308
726x39 = AK or SKS type
762x54 = Mosin Nagant or Dragunov (I have also seen 762x54R but I'm not sure this is the same round).
One of the best places I know of to cache your extra supply is in the remote areas of state or federal parks, just across the fence from adjoining private property.
Remember to keep it above flood level and try to avoid heavy snow areas.
>>We're already profiled.<<
Yes we are. That is why IMO, we should stash our extra tools away. I wouldn't be surprised if some day a gang of Feds bangs on the door and demands all my weapons. Go ahead and take everything in the safe will be my smiling response, knowing that I have other specialized tools within 3 to 40 miles along all the highways leaving town.
Taking a $50 rifle and burying it, then digging it up two years later will tell you if you have the technique down pat.
Myself, I like PVC 8" sewer pipe with mechanical plug. Another friend prefers his PVC columns. http://instantarch.com/products_column_cap_base.htm
Now that's high class stuff there. LOL
I need to replace mine.
Have you ever used Styrofoam Housewrap Insulation to wrap rifles in? It is the same stuff as egg cartons are made of but thinner and flexible. Roll the rifle about six or eith times and you're ready for the plastic bags.
The replies are almost better than the excellent original post!
If that day comes, they likely won't 'bang' on your door, rather flash-bang grenades lobbed in after breaking it down.
Hopefully your dogs will still be alive at that point (if you own any) and you wont be holding anything that can be construed as a weapon.
Lord help us if the witch regains the reins to power and control of the IRS, BATFE.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
7.62: a great round, so good our military and most of the free world uses it. Consequently, because of the war, a lot of it that would be available for us to buy is going to kill our scumbag Muslim enemies. As a result, the price has shot up (no pun intended) over the last year and a half. There is some good Indian surplus stuff out there, and maybe some South African, but the price for both of these was way up the last time I went shopping for ammo. I haven't seen any of the really good Portuguese and Israeli surplus stuff for a while now...hopefully there will be some at the gun show tomorrow.
7.62x39: also good, doesn't hit as hard as the 7.62x51, though. Numbers approximate the .30-30 from what I've seen, which makes the 7.62x39 soft point a good deer round, too. Prices have almost doubled over the last year, also likely due to the war and Chavez stocking up for that Yankee invasion he's been talking about for the last few years.
7.62x54 and 7.92 (8mm Mauser): both are old WW1-2 rounds, used by the Sovs and the Germans respectively. Plentiful and CHEAP! Better yet, Mosin-Nagants and Turkish Mausers are cheap and effective rifles, and if you have a Curio and Relic license, they can be delivered directly to your door. No, I don't sell these, but I do highly recommend them. Mausers aren't as sexy as AKs, HK-91s, FALs, but they do the same job just as good, and you can use 'em on your next deer or elk hunt, too.
Happy shopping...enjoy it while you can, bro.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
Wku,
I'm definitely gonna buy a 762 something. I am leaning toward the 30.06 (763x63). The ammo seems to be readily available and if the SHTF I feel that there would be plenty around. I really looking at the CMP Garand (service grade $425) though if I could find one 'off the books' I would probably be willing to spend a bit more.
One reason (main reason) I'm leaning toward the Garand is 'they keep on shooting no matter what' and they have super knock down as well as 'reach out and touch you' capabilities with 8 available rounds for not much cash outlay.
I am gonna look around here some more. I know of a couple of Mosins I could get for under 100 but some how I'm just not excited about them.
ALL input is gratefully accepted and if you have more 'fire when ready'
BTW I always have a pot of coffee on!
Hehehehe...yeah, I've had one on continuously since Tuesday!
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of the Garand myself, just don't have one (yet). My Dad has a beautiful Match Grade M1, but I'm afraid he'd turn me over his knee if he even caught me looking at it...and he's 71! I've started stocking up on surplus .30-06, though. The CMP website has some Greek (I think), and you can usually find semi-corrosive Korean surplus in the 8-rd. clips in Shotgun News. Just be sure to clean your rifle immediately after shooting the corrosive stuff (always a good habit to be in anyway).
That said, even if Mosins don't excite you, they're great cache weapons, and are also great hunting rifles. A buddy of mine never fails to take a buck with his Mosin. Plus, the ammo is cheap, cheap, cheap! It's not too expensive a proposition to buy a few for the bad times to come, if/when you need to arm a few buddies or family members.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
I remember it well. I was signed on as someone else then.
BTW - He did not call for violence. He only hoped that the quislings would be hung from trees when the civil war starts.
I happen to hope similarly.
I share his sentiment.
He did not bang his sword, rally the rebels and call for violence, nor did he say he would personally hang the quislings from trees, nor did he patently call for others to hang the quislings from trees.
He did hope that the quislings got their just due, (by hanging from trees) but he never called for unrest nor encouraged others to do so.
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