On the Religious Right, an Alliance Torn Asunder [Armey vs. Dobson]

Washington Post ^ | November 3, 2006 | Alan Cooperman and Juliet Eilperin

[ZGuy]

Both are Christian conservatives, and they were once stalwart allies, but Dick Armey and James Dobson are going after each other tooth and claw.

Armey, the former Texas congressman and House majority leader, argued that Republicans face an "electoral rout" because they stopped being the party of limited government, allowed spending to spin "out of control," and concentrated on such issues as flag burning, Terry Schiavo and same-sex marriage.

Calling them "thugs" and "bullies" in recent interviews, Armey says that "Dobson and his gang" have split the conservative Christian movement into two camps: those who want to "practice their faith independent of heavy-handed government" and "big government sympathizers who want to impose their version of 'righteousness' on others."

Dobson responded this week that Armey is "a very bitter man" who is still smarting because "I supported my close friend and hunting buddy, Rep. Steve Largent over Armey for majority leader.” Dobson denied that he supports big government and cited news media reports that Armey has been consulting for the American Civil Liberties Union.

Calling the accusations "a shocker" that "came straight out of the blue," Dobson concluded with this hypothesis about Armey: "He could be trying to reposition himself as an erstwhile Republican leader by discrediting the Religious Right, hoping to step into the vacuum after the upcoming election."

Dobson ally, Rev. Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention, said in an interview that evangelicals are irate over Armey's suggestion that issues such as same-sex marriage have distracted the Republicans. In 2004, he said, a referendum to ban same-sex marriage got more votes than President Bush did in Ohio.

"If it weren't for the marriage amendment in Ohio, John Kerry would be president. So shut up, Dick," Land said.

[johniegrad]

This appears to be the MSM final push toward the election. Present as much negative material as possible about conservative evangelicals in order to demoralize the base and try to reduce turnout. I think that is also what the allegations against the other preacher and homosexual acts is about.

[longtermmemmory]

Respectfully on this Dick Army is wrong on this one.

[JamesP81]

Calling them "thugs" and "bullies" in recent interviews, Armey says that "Dobson and his gang" have split the conservative Christian movement into two camps: those who want to "practice their faith independent of heavy-handed government" and "big government sympathizers who want to impose their version of 'righteousness' on others."

There's several things going on here.

I think Armey's wrong on Schivao and gay marriage, and I don't know if I'd call Dobson a thug or bully. However, he's absolutely right when he says Christians conservatives have been split between those wanting big government and small government (with me being the very small govt variety) and, unfortunately, the big govt type Christians are winning at the moment. Further compounding the problem is that the libertarian wing of the GOP has incorrectly assumed all Christian conservatives are of the big govt type and are trying to run them all out of the party which will, of course, have disastrous results.

The other thing that's going on is the MSM is trying to be as negative as possible before election day. There's a lot of truth to this article, but the MSM would have you think that it's open war within the GOP ranks. We haven't quite come to that point yet.

[rightinthemiddle]

WP: Divide, and conquer.

[TBP]

Dobson has been quoted as saying that "Howard Phillips has the right principles" and that he voted for him over Dole in 1996.

[hilaryrhymeswithrich]

I agree with you.

And as for Armey...I tend to find some real truth in what he says, even if he isn't, perhaps, communicting it the right way.

We allow the left to focus so much on the flambouant social issues...like gay marriage etc. that it over shadows the things that the right can find more common ground with more peopple...

ie. making the tax cuts permanent, elimination of the death tax etc.

Letting the Christian right "own" the response to the left on many social issues keeps them on the table as the hot topics to the delight of the left and the MSM....

The facts are, a fiscal conservative who tows the line on that end of the barge is statistically more likely to be on the same side (or closer) to the social issues vs. a fiscally liberal/big government person.

I would like to see us focus on the basic Ronald Reagan/ Bill Buckley topics...

[JamesP81]

Letting the Christian right "own" the response to the left on many social issues keeps them on the table as the hot topics to the delight of the left and the MSM....

There's a lot of variation in the camps that makes this hard to change. I'm a strict constitutionalist and believe in minimal govt, but I'm still on board with many of the social issues as much as I am with the fiscal and constitutional issues. I don't think they are mutually exclusive; I just think the problem is that many Christians (and non-Christians for that matter) no longer understand the proper realm of the Church and the State.

The primary function of the Church is to bring the saving knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the people. The primary function of the State is to secure and protect the rights of the individual citizen against infringement.

Now, I get accused of being a libertarian and even occasionally a weak Christian when I voice my strong opposition of federal government censorship of entertainment mediums. It is not the job of the state to protect us from objectionable content; it is the function of the church to set the moral example in the community and tell people that this behavior isn't good. On the other hand, the libertarians start calling me a statist when I say abortion and euthanasia should clearly be illegal. Why? Again, it is the function of the state to protect the individual's rights from being infringed. These rights include the right to life, which means not letting your mother have you dismembered and removed from her womb before you're even born; it also means not letting your unfaithful husband starve you to death for the insurance money.

The solution is for the people to be taught what the true function of the government is supposed to be and for the Church to teach everyone in the congregation what the job of the Church is (as it relates to civil society. The true function of the Church is bring unbelievers to the saving knowledge of the gospel; but the church also has some other functions where civil society is concerned, and it is important that these are understood).

[hilaryrhymeswithrich]

Well said...too bad Dick can't seem to express himself that way! In essence I think that is his point in a stumbly, bumbly way.

You articulated my feelings exactly....

[Ol' Sparky]

It wasn't Dobson that referred to Barney Frank as Barney Fag...

[Hattie]

Dick Armey lost me when he told the Democrat media he believed Kerry just told a botched joke.

[itsahoot]

We allow the left to focus so much on the flambouant social issues...like gay marriage etc. that it over shadows the things that the right can find more common ground with more peopple..

Big issues for conservatives, not so big for libertarians.......

[itsahoot]

The true function of the Church is bring unbelievers to the saving knowledge of the gospel;

How well does that work in an Islamic society? Socialist society? Communist society?

Maybe the Chistians have an obligation not to let their society be corrupted beyond redemption.

And he to the jawbone of an ass...........

[itsahoot]

<>Dick Armey lost me when he told the Democrat media he believed Kerry just told a botched joke.

He had a lot of company in that statement BOR was among the first, and pubbies galore just want to accept the apology and move on.

[itsahoot]

to=took

[GregH]

If Dick Armey is so concerned about the GOP direction, then what exactly did he achieve during his time as majority leader. Atleast Delay pushed a lot of things and got things done unlike Armey who was a under achiever.

[MonroeDNA]

Armey is right.

[MonroeDNA]

Lots of vegetable heads here, and elsewhere.

Terri says "unghh."