Georgia Is a Victim of NATO Expansion

Johnson's Russia List ^ | 10/15/2006 | Andrei P. Tsygankov

[GarySpFc]

10 Western Media Stereotypes About Russia: How Truthful Are They? The Discovery Institute

[Red6]

About the author: http://bss.sfsu.edu/polisci/faculty_profiles/tsygankov.htm

This is such trash.

Simple facts: Russia was spying, they got caught, Georgia threw them out, Russia retaliated.

“Its every effort to build a broad cooperative security framework with Western nations has been thwarted.” Was written.

BS. At every juncture Russia has woprked against NATO, against the Western security policy. Now the antagonist is made into the victim.

In this article Russia in the Cold war is put on equal terms with the US. After all the US treatened the former Eastern states right? And the US ruled Western Europe like the Soviets did in the Czeck Rep, Hungary, and Poland right? What a bunch of garbage. Revisionist interpretation of history is used to make a bogus point in current events which are very wishfully interpreted reference Georgia.

[GarySpFc]

Are you saying it was okay for the US to break its promise to not put NATO in countries bordering Russia?

[Red6]

The Russians did agree to withdraw their troops from Georgia which they still have not. Do you think maybe there is a reason why most of the former Soviet Republics are distrustful?

Georgia wants the Russians out. They are not welcome. Do you understand?

[GarySpFc]

The Russians did agree to withdraw their troops from Georgia which they still have not. Do you think maybe there is a reason why most of the former Soviet Republics are distrustful?
Georgia wants the Russians out. They are not welcome. Do you understand?

And the Russians have agreed to leave by April 2007, which Georgia wants to change. Even the UN recoginzes that date and the need to protect the people there.

Note the following from Putin's interview just last week.

GARI GULUSANI: Good afternoon, Vladimir Vladimirovich. My name is Gari Shotovich Gulusani. I have been living here for more than 30 years now and I moved here from Abkhazia. My parents and my brother still live in Abkhazia. I was there just a week ago and so I know for myself what kind of tension there is there today. People are waiting for war. Is there not a way for Abkhazia to become part of Russia? South Ossetia and Trans-Dniestr also want to be with us. The referendum in Kosovo was recognised, and why should Abkhazia be any different?

Thank you.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Yes, it seems you have already heard what I have said on this issue and have formulated your question accordingly, Gari Shotovich. Indeed, people in Abkhazia and in South Ossetia are very worried by the military build up in Georgia, and we in Russia are also very worried by this. The worsening in relations between Russia and Georgia is linked precisely to this issue, to the attempt or preparations to try to settle the problems of South Ossetia and Abkhazia through the use of force. If the Georgian leadership does decide to follow such a path this would be a big mistake, and I do not think it would benefit the Georgian people. Under no circumstances should events be allowed to develop in this way. If people want to live together, they need to find peaceful means of settling their problems, through consensus and finding compromise solutions.

As for the question of any other territories becoming part of the Russian Federation, I must say that we do not seek to expand our territory. Even after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia remains the biggest country in the world. We have enough territory of our own. But we cannot allow bloodshed in this region. The action that we have taken with regard to Georgia lately has nothing at all to do with plans to join NATO or anything else. Every country has the sovereign right to decide its own security matters. The only motive behind our action is a desire to prevent any bloodshed.

We know the background for the relations between the peoples of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. We know that the Georgian armed forces carried out three punitive operations against the Ossetians in 1920. These are the difficult pages of history that are part of our inheritance, and we need to remember these things and be very careful in our action.
,br> That said, I fully realize there has been genocide on both sides in Georgia.

[monkeywrench]

You conveniently forget the weaponry they're selling our enemies just south of us. You need to pick a side. So many are getting tired of the defenders of the very ones that put our troops at risk.

[GarySpFc]

The AK's and factories could have been purchased from any number of countries. The fighters and helicopters they sold replaced ones we sold. Please don't tell me about fighting communists, I have been there, have you?

[Lukasz]

Washington’s plans to deploy elements of missile defense system to the territory of some Eastern European states, such as Poland, too can hardly meet with Moscow’s approval.

Russians should not be bothered by this problem. I can promise them that they wont be asked whatever decision would be made

[Red6]

Sure-

And lets forget about the S18 sales to Syria, the SA15 sales to Iran, MIG29C sales to "NORTH" Korea, enhanced SA6 to Libya while everyone else was boycotting them because of minor things like Pan Am 103.....


The Glonas GPS jammers that Iraq had, where did those come from? Also a thiord party? I don't think so.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81917,00.html

You're blinded.

[Tailgunner Joe]

Georgia is a victim of Russian expansion.

[Tailgunner Joe]

They can't allow bloodshed in the region!? They who razed Grozny to the ground to crush their own separatist rebellion? What hypocrites!

[GarySpFc]

They can't allow bloodshed in the region!? They who razed Grozny to the ground to crush their own separatist rebellion? What hypocrites!

Firstly, Grozny was founded by the Cossacks, NOT the Chechens.
Secondly, the Chechens murdered, raped, stole, kidnapped, and terrorized the Russians and other groups in the city to drive them out.
Thirdly, the Chechens turned Grozny into a fort. The Russians gave them fair warning what would happen, and they gave the Chechens more than enough time to leave for other parts of Russia where they were accepted.
Fourthly, leveling the city with artillery is actually no different than leveling it by bombing. Can you think of any cities we have leveled by bombing?

[Tailgunner Joe]

Putin is a filthy hypocrite because Georgia has just as much right to put down their own racial separatist rebellion as Russia does. In this case though Russia supports the separatists. They simply don't treat others the way they wish to be treated. That's why nobody respects them.

Russian Federation forces helped Basayev the Chechen terrorist wage jihad against Christian Georgia. They murdered and ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Georgians from Abkhazia. Genocidal Russian dhimmi invaders occupying Georgian territory have Georgian blood on their hands and have no right to moralize to anyone.

[MarMema]

That's why nobody respects them.

You said it. And they seem to be unaware of their growing reputation for dishonesty - witness the last EU meeting.

They murdered and ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Georgians from Abkhazia

And those who fled for their lives are living in large buildings on the outskirts of Tbilisi. Been there.

[MarMema]

None of which addresses the point of their hypocrisy.
Put down your own separatist movement, hand out passports to those in a neighbor separatist country.

[GarySpFc]

Russian Federation forces helped Basayev the Chechen terrorist wage jihad against Christian Georgia. They murdered and ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Georgians from Abkhazia. Genocidal Russian dhimmi invaders occupying Georgian territory have Georgian blood on their hands and have no right to moralize to anyone.

"Basayev became the commander-in-chief of the forces of the Confederation of the Peoples of the Caucasus (a volunteer unit of pan-Caucasian nationalists, composed mainly of Chechens), and eventually the Abkhazia's deputy Defence Minister. Their involvement was crucial in the Abkhazian war and in October 1992 the Georgian government suffered a decisive military defeat, after which the entire ethnic Georgian population of the region was driven out in a large-scale outbreak of ethnic cleansing. Basayev's unit was ALLEGED to have killed thousands of Georgian civilians in Sukhumi and the village Leselidze. It was RUMORED that the volunteers were trained and supplied by some part of the Russian army (alternatively the GRU, or the VDV troops stationed there as peacekeepers), although NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THESE ALLGEATIONS WAS EVER FOUND.

Try dealing in truth and facts for a change.

[GarySpFc]

Put down your own separatist movement, hand out passports to those in a neighbor separatist country.

Where is your evidence for this?

[MarMema]

Charles Tannock, speaking for the right-wing European People's Party faction, attacked Russia's practice of handing out its citizenship to Abkhaz and South Ossetian populations.

Tons more where that came from. Try using google for things like this. I googled Abkhazia Russian passports and came up with tons of links.

[GarySpFc]

Fair enough, and that does go beyond mere rumor, which too many on Free Republic use to attack Russia. Why Russia would be doing this is beyond me, because they have made it clear they have no designs on the two provinces joining with anyone other than Georgia.

That said, it is obvious from the article that just as I stated earlier to you there is blame on both sides. Georgia is throwing gasoline on the fire and needs to work with NATO and the EU to resolve this. NATO is NOT going to allow Georgia to join if they continue down this road. Indeed, what I have read to date indicates it is highly doubtful they will be approved.

[MarMema]

Indeed, what I have read to date indicates it is highly doubtful they will be approved.

Propoganda for Russian ears.