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To: cornelis; Alamo-Girl; apologist; Dimensio; mitch5501; YHAOS; FreedomProtector
The the motive for a "methodological naturalism" is in some instances warranted.

I readily grant your point, and agree that "it has something to do with suspending judgment for the sake of being open to observation." IOW, to suppress "subjective" elements, so to enable a purely "objective" assessment of the data.

I have a funny story that sheds light on this issue. Albert Einstein and Neils Bohr were very close friends. Einstein as you probably know never accepted quantum theory, even though we was one of the earliest contributors to its development (i.e., his work on light). He used to tease his friend Bohr, who insisted that it is the business of science to make descriptions of observations, and you can't describe what you haven't actually observed.

On that basis, Einstein would say, "If Niels does not observe the moon in the sky, then for him the moon does not exist." Therefore, Einstein argued, Bohr was relentlessly subjective in his approach to science.

But this is to misunderstand Bohr, I believe. Bohr was amazingly epistemologically zealous -- presumably in the attempt to keep things as objective as possible. He emphasized direct observation as the sine qua non of scientific investigation. He knows the moon is up there in the sky. His point was he couldn't say anything about it as a scientist until he had observed it for himself. Only on that basis could a scientific description be made.

Bohr (and Einstein) offered some of the earliest descriptions of the so-called observer problem. It is evidently manifest in both relativity and quantum theory. However it seems clear to me that the observer problem is "alive and well" in science dealing with the Newtonian "macroworld" (our four-dimensional spacetime world) as well, by simple analogy.

If Bohr is right -- epistemologically speaking -- then it needs to be recognized (IMHO) that even such a widely-accepted theory as Darwinist evolution is to some degree compromised as science, because it rests so much on things that no one has ever directly observed. The accretion of subjective elements is bound to occur over time if that is the case. Thus philosophy inevitably gets smuggled in through the back door, in the end....

132 posted on 10/30/2006 7:35:39 AM PST by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: betty boop
f Bohr is right -- epistemologically speaking -- then it needs to be recognized (IMHO) that even such a widely-accepted theory as Darwinist evolution is to some degree compromised as science, because it rests so much on things that no one has ever directly observed.

To what as yet unobserved events do you refer?
133 posted on 10/30/2006 7:53:17 AM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; cornelis; .30Carbine; Whosoever
[ Bohr (and Einstein) offered some of the earliest descriptions of the so-called observer problem. It is evidently manifest in both relativity and quantum theory. However it seems clear to me that the observer problem is "alive and well" in science dealing with the Newtonian "macroworld" (our four-dimensional spacetime world) as well, by simple analogy. ]

I deduce Bohr and Einstein are BOTH right.. in attitude..

That is, faith, should be an operator in any formula.. as, by the way, it is in the presence of infinity.. For what is infinity except faith in that beyond your conceptual grasp..

I observe, My personal situation like that.. I look at my body that is obvious and wonder about my spirit which seems to be.. Can't prove my spirit is infinite but I can prove my body isn't infinite(to myself).. by the very seemingly real subject of death.. That I observe(things that die)..

"The Observer" is indeed the prime requisite of any conversation.. For the observation post drives any deductions.. And how can any two humans occupy the same exact observation post?.. i.e. Einstien and Bohr's views of physics and other things....

Relativity and Quantum Theory are tails wagging "the GoD"..
The Bible might be the best "science book" of ALL...

I know, I know, I'm taking my meds..

142 posted on 10/30/2006 8:39:30 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole.)
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