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To: Jim Robinson
Jim:

I haven't been posting since the 11th of this month, after a science news thread got transferred to the Religion forum, and I kinda gave up on science news around here -- at least for a while.

When I registered back in '99 it was because this site had been recommended to me by a good friend -- brace yourself! -- Jack Thompson. I looked, I read your mission statement, I liked what I saw. When I discovered that you also had active science threads I was doubly delighted.

As my homepage said, I've long been concerned by the left's propaganda that conservatives are idiots, while intellectuals belong to them, and I thought that myth should be exploded. I've had a great time helping to keep this website interesting for dozens of scientists, engineers, and university professors. You've had loads of PhDs here, with degrees in physics, chemistry, math, biology, astronomy, etc. Several have said to me that on their liberal campuses they've had no one to talk with, but here they can chat with like-minded conservatives. We loved this place! My science ping lists had just short of 400 names. And -- wouldja believe it? -- most of them are religious people. That's no contradiction.

Most Christian denominations aren't anti-science, and most scientists aren't anti-religion. We (the people on my ping list) have always tried to walk that line, and to make it clear that our interest in science isn't because of any antagonism to religion. For the most part we've done that rather well -- but you can't please everyone. I don't bash religion, and I've always avoided atheism threads -- I don't start them, don't ping to them.

However, some folks are hyper-sensitive. If someone says -- correctly -- that Noah's Ark isn't supported by scientific evidence, in my mind that's not Christian-bashing, or Marxism, or devil worship, or an endorsement of homosexuality. But if someone starts complaining that such a scientific view amounts to bashing his religion, well ... he's wrong, and he shouldn't be on the science threads, just as a belligerent atheist doesn't belong in the religion threads. But if he mashes the abuse button and complains to the mods, it requires a mod who understands what's going on.

Since Dales left, we haven't had a mod who cared enough to follow our threads so that he'd know who was making trouble. It's been a rough year without Dales. Once I even asked the admin mod if there were another mod with whom I could work to smooth out problems, but I got a brush-off. Fair enough. We slogged along, and a lot of science threads ended up in the Backroom that didn't need to go there. Some judicious moderation would have calmed things down, but it just wasn't there. We endured. But then ... my homepage vanished. That was March 6 of this year (or the 5th, I no longer remember).

The unexplained disappearance of my homepage is literally the reason for the creation of Darwin Central. On March 7 -- the day after the homepage takedown -- we started an emergency site at Yahoo, just like FR has. It was a place where we could find each other in case something crazy happened. I thought I was being zotted. When seemingly senseless things happen (like the homepage takedown) for no apparent reason, people will assume that something's gone wrong, and they will expect more of the same. DC was created as a fall-back site where we could find one another in case a bunch of us got banned -- a fate that was reasonable to expect under the circumstances.

The non-response to my inquiries to the mods and to John R was troublesome; it was attributed to your distance from day-to-day affairs. It was assumed that you had delegated too much authority to assistants with an anti-science agenda, and that some rogue mod was on a private rampage.

Seriously, Jim, I had no clue what was happening. I "knew" it wasn't you, because I've had years of happy experience here at FR. I naturally assumed the problem was a rogue mod or maybe computer hacking, and I asked John R to look into it for me. I really wish you had said something to me. But we've never talked. Perhaps it's too late now, but I wanted to lay out my side of all this.

Anyway, the motive for Darwin Central's creation wasn't anti-FR. It was self-defense. You're the godfather, Jim.

We're not socialists, nor homos, nor ACLU freaks, nor anti-FR. We'd like nothing more than to have things the way they were, back when Dales was a concerned moderator who understood what was happening in our threads. If that's not to be, okay. It's your website, and we're not your enemies.

I've always wished you well, and I continue to do so. I'm going to vote straight "R" as I always do. I'll pray for the troops, and you, and for our great country.

And no, this isn't an opus.

1,031 posted on 10/27/2006 8:47:21 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
I think moving your wearisome threads to the religion forum was appropriate and long overdue, PH.

Darwinism is not science. Parts of it are science. But on the whole Darwinism is an ideology, a faith system.

Your "this is not an opus" opus is merely a restatement of your cranky and insulting opinion that your fellow Darwinism ideologues have all the brains and understanding to be had--and that "lower thinking" lifeforms: good, solid, thinking conservatives who don't share your fawning opinion of Darwinism--are brainless, drooling fools.

Even that opinion is tolerable. What is intolerable is the preaching of Darwinism in the public schools and the shameful silencing of its critics through the courts, on the public dime.

The fact that Darwinism has to be artificially propped up by judicial edicts issued at the behest of the ACLU tells you that its claims to be "only science" are miscast and disingenuous, and shows that its ideology is not conservative in form or substance.

1,633 posted on 11/04/2006 9:08:53 AM PST by JCEccles
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To: PatrickHenry; DaveLoneRanger; Jim Robinson
FWIW, my mom has been an Episcopalian from birth. She goes to church every week. And according to her, her church teaches that the six days of creation is not literal; rather, it allows for evolution. I know Unitarians/Universalists also subscribe to evolution, as do certain sects of the Methodists and Presbyterian Church (my DW's uncle is a retired minister that taught it).

The fundamentalist church I belonged did not believe in a literal six days of creation; rather, it taught The Gap Theory which states that the six days found in Genesis 1 were a RE-creation from the chaos after the fall of angels (Gen.1:2 "The earth was without form and void--tohu and bohu--chaotic/wasteland/empty..."). This Gap Theory states that the earth and the universe are infinitely older than six thousand years. In fact the theory allows for an unfathomable past beginning with the creation of angels and uses Job 38:4-10 to explain that the angels sang when the earth was created. Then Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 27, Jude, and the Book of Jasher state that the angels warred in heaven and throughout the universe (the rebellion is shown within the chaos within structures and cosmic laws, scarring of planets, etc.) and they were cast to earth. From there we see in II Corinthians 4:4 that the evil spirits with the Adversary at the helm ruling the earth. But as Job points out, they can do nothing without the express permission of the Eternal Deity. Finally Christ came to retake the rulership and will cast the Adversies out forever into outer darkness at the Second Advent.

The Gap Theory allows for micro-evolution. In point of fact, some writers that subscribe to the Gap Theory speculate that either the Eternal Deity or his angels fiddled around with humanoids which the believers think is why we see fewer fossils of ape-like creations -- but they readily admit that there are fossils and they are humanoid. In fact, I read one article that speculated that the humanoids died in the rebellion of fallen angels known as the First Flood (you read in Genesis 1 that the Spirit hovered over a flooded Earth before it began the six day text). The first flood predates the Noahic flood by unknown years--possibly billions of years.

Greek, Persian, Roman, Chinese, Native American and Hindi myths all seem to point to a similar history which is ignored whole clothe by certain (not all) fundamentalist churches.

My point is not to get on a soap box, nor is it to preach it but to illustrate that religious people can and DO believe in evolution...Christians believe in evolution...Catholic priests have been intimately involved in research and have uncovered fossils...and many conservatives subscribe to evolution. They are not part of a vast conspiracy. They are not dupes used by libs to undermine values. In fact, I dare say many are vastly more conservative than people on this forum. Conversely, I know many liberals that are religious and use the Bible to justify their liberalism.

In any event, I highly respect the work of Patrick Henry and the other scientists on both sides that take time out of their busy lives to instruct. I don't think we realize the enormous braintrust when we spar with one another.

I'm not in a intellectual position to be Inquisitor to Copernicus' De revolutionibus orbium coelestium, nor was the Pope. Are we fully prepared and scientifically astute to ban what may be truth? Are we willing to burn the libraries of Alexandria and Pergamos for a zeal without full knowledge?

It is human nature to cheer for your horse. However, I ask for reconciliation in this matter. And I ask that the people on both sides of this issue continue the discourse however heated. It helps more than you all know. I hope the search for wisdom rules over the humors of the heart.

My2cents
1,635 posted on 11/06/2006 10:52:19 AM PST by sully777 (You have flies in your eyes--Catch-22)
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