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To: Polybius
Sorry, but this idiot played fast and loose with the English language.

Nope. The letter was written in Spanish. The word "immigrant" in the English translation does not appear in the original version. From another thread, the corresponding sentence is:

"Se le avisa que si su residencia en este país es ilegal o si es emigrado, votar en una eleción federal es un delito que podrá resultar en encarcelamiento, y sí será deportado por votar sin tener derecho a ello."
There was some debate about the meaning, because apparently the grammar is wrong. The boldface part roughly translates to, "if your residence in this country is illegal or if it is emigrated."

I would guess that the "si es emigrado" part refers to the case of the reader (not his residence) being an emigrant from another country (but not necessarily an immigrant to this country). Someone in the process of immigration to this country must have first left his home country, hence one could say this person has already emigrated. Until he is naturalized, he's not a citizen. In English, we call these foreigners "aliens," but perhaps there's a different word in Spanish that the letter writer wished to avoid using. We often further divide aliens into illegal aliens and legal aliens, so it would make sense for the letter writer to separate both these groups from citizens, whom he encouraged to vote.

62 posted on 10/21/2006 6:49:45 PM PDT by heleny (NO on all bonds/taxes)
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To: heleny
"if your residence in this country is illegal or if it is emigrated."

A closer street translation would be:

if you emigrated to this country and your residence here is illegal

In many languages, including English, emigration has the connotation of a personal decision, as in an escape, while immigration implies government cooperation and approval.

64 posted on 10/21/2006 7:03:53 PM PDT by Amerigomag
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To: heleny
The letter was written in Spanish. The word "immigrant" in the English translation does not appear in the original version.

I am a native Spanish speaker myself and I discussed the matter with other Spanish speakers in Post 39.

The meaning of the English translation is faithful to the meaning of original Spanish text.

From Post 39:

*******

Original Spanish text of the letter:

“Se le avisa que si su residencia en este pais es ilegal o si es emigrado, votar en una elección federal es un delito que podra resultar en encarcelamiento, y sera deportado por votar sin tener derecho a ello.”

According to “Nuevo Pequeño Larousse Ilustrado, Diccionario Enciclopedico”, adapatacion española de Miguel de Torro y Gisbert, Doctor en Letras Correspondiente de la Academia española:

“ EMIGRADO: emigrante.”

“EMIGRANTE: Individuo que emigra.”

“EMIGRAR: Salir de su pais para establecerse en otro”

So, in effect:

“Se le avisa que si {ha salio de su pais para establecerse en los EEUU}, votar en una elección federal es un delito que podra resultar en encarcelamiento, y sera deportado por votar sin tener derecho a ello.”

***********

The dictionary mentioned is a Spanish to Spanish dictionary written by a Doctor of the Spanish Academy of Letters (AKA "The Spanish Language Police").

EMIGRADO: emigrante ...... "emmigrant".

EMIGRANTE: Individuo que emigra..... "Someone who emmigrates"

EMIGRAR (EMIGRATE): Salir de su pais para establecerse en otro...... "To leave your original country in order to establish yourself in a different country"

As I noted in Post 39, either in English or Spanish, it is extremely careless language that states that, if you were born in another country and came to the U.S. to establish yourself here ( in other words, you are an immigrant), voting in a Federal election is a crime that could result in your imprisonment and would result in your deportation.

65 posted on 10/21/2006 7:24:34 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: heleny
Regarding "... si su residencia en este país es ilegal o es emigrado..." and your English version "if your residence in this country is illegal or if it is emigrated...":

You're exactly right that "emigrado" is a noun ("emigrant"), rather than a participial adjective, and refers to the reader. The confusion comes with the second "es," which also refers to the reader (this time meaning "you are" rather than "it is").

The Spanish use of the formal third-person pronoun "usted" (abbreviated "ud.") to address the reader requires the matching third-person singular form ("es") of the verb "ser" ("to be"). As a result, it's easy to correlate "es" with "ilegal" in the first instance and to miscorrelate it with "emigrado" in the second.

The Spanish writer could have eliminated any chance of misunderstanding simply by repeating "usted": "Se le avisa que si su residencia en este país es ilegal o si ud. es emigrado..." ("You are advised that if your residence in this country is illegal or if you are an emigrant...").

Just a pair-o'-pennies from someone who does this stuff for a living.

105 posted on 10/22/2006 3:03:55 AM PDT by Tenniel (For those who govern, the first thing required is indifference to newspapers. -- L.A. Thiers)
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