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To: betty boop
The Quinquae viae are timeless.
Thanks for the supurb 21st century read of timeless ideas.

The premise of first cause arguments are well supported by observations and mathematical deduction made in 21st century:

The Nobel committee cited their work especially for lending further confirmation of the big bang model, and for refining the age of the universe. The universe has an age because it had a beginning: Thus the universe is not eternal.

Timeless thoughts from Thomas Aquinas:

There exists things that are caused (created) by other things.
Nothing can be the cause of itself (nothing can create itself.)
There can not be an endless string of objects causing other objects to exist.
Therefore, ther must be an uncaused first Cause called God

or

Every effect has a cause(s).
Nothing can cause itself.
A causal chain cannot be of infinite length.
Therefore, there must be a first Cause; or, there must be something which is not an effect.

It is interesting that there is another variant of the first cause argument often refered to as the Kalâm cosmological argument.


There are several people who have written extensively advocating the Kalâm cosmological argument in the last 50 years one of them being William Lane Craig. Dr. Craig's concise statement of the argument:
1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause of its 
   existence. 
2. The universe began to exist. 

   2.1 Argument based on the impossibility of an 
       actual infinite.

         2.11 An actual infinite cannot exist. 
         2.12 An infinite temporal regress of 
              events is an actual infinite.
         2.13 Therefore, an infinite temporal 
              regress of events cannot exist. 

   2.2   Argument based on the impossibility of 
         the formation of an actual infinite by 
         successive addition. 

         2.21 A collection formed by successive 
              addition cannot be actually infinite. 
         2.22 The temporal series of past events 
              is a collection formed by successive 
              addition. 
         2.23 Therefore, the temporal series of 
              past events cannot be actually 
              infinite.

3. Therefore, the universe has a cause of its 
   existence. 

Related articles from Dr. Craig:
The Existence of God and the Beginning of the Universe
A Swift and Simple Refutation of the Kalam Cosmological Argument?
The Caused Beginning of the Universe: A Response to Quentin Smith
The Ultimate Question of Origins: God and the Beginning of the Universe
134 posted on 10/25/2006 9:29:45 AM PDT by FreedomProtector
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To: FreedomProtector
2.11 An actual infinite cannot exist.

This proposition assumes some knowledge about terminology, especially the term exist. Would probably be good to untangle that. Etienne Gilson does an excellent job in Being and Some Philosophers untangling the nuances of concepts such as being, existence, and essence.

135 posted on 10/25/2006 9:47:25 AM PDT by cornelis
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To: FreedomProtector; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; metmom
Thank you so much, FreedomProtector, for providing the details of Aquinas' arguments WRT to causation. He, of course, was a student of Aristotle (among other things).

Thank you also for the links to Dr. Craig! Will be visiting them soon.

143 posted on 10/25/2006 10:26:02 AM PDT by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: betty boop
The premise of first cause arguments are well supported by observations and mathematical deduction made in 21st century:

The Nobel committee cited their work especially for lending further confirmation of the big bang model, and for refining the age of the universe. The universe has an age because it had a beginning: Thus the universe is not eternal.


Backing up to a point in time where the entropy of the entire universe was 0 (and the corresponding theoritical end "heat death" is a possible final state of the universe, where the entire universe has reached maximum entropy) is another well supported by observations/mathematical deduction made in 21st century which demonstates that the universe had a beginning, as the change in entropy of the entire universe is always positive dS/dt >= 0 if the entire universe is considered an isolated system. Entroy being negative is perhaps more far-fetched then imaginary time.

In the beginning, the entire universe was not an isolated system, it was open as God the first cause of thermodynamic order exported thermodynamic order aross the boundary.
153 posted on 10/25/2006 10:55:53 AM PDT by FreedomProtector
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