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Scientists use grammar to fight nasty bacteria (Intellligent Design?)
AP ^ | Updated Wed. Oct. 18 2006 2:44 PM ET

Posted on 10/19/2006 6:25:16 AM PDT by Grig

WASHINGTON -- Using grammar rules alongside test tubes, biologists may have found a promising new way to fight nasty bacteria, including drug-resistant microbes and anthrax.

Studying a potent type of bacteria-fighters found in nature, called antimicrobial peptides, biologists found that they seemed to follow rules of order and placement that are similar to simple grammar laws. Using those new grammar-like rules for how these antimicrobial peptides work, scientists created 40 new artificial bacteria-fighters.

Nearly half of those new germ-fighters vanquished a variety of bacteria and two of them beat anthrax, according to a paper in Thursday's journal Nature.

This potentially creates not just a new type of weapon against hard-to-fight germs, but a way to keep churning out new and different microbe-attackers so that when bacteria evolve new defenses against one drug, doctors won't be stymied.

Using grammar as their guide, scientists could easily produce tens of thousands of new bacteria-fighters and test them for use as future drugs, said study lead author Gregory Stephanopoulos, a chemical engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

It would likely take several years to develop the new drugs, but the process conceivably could be speeded up for fighting the worst bacteria, Stephanopoulos said.

In man's war with microbes, bacteria keep mutating to develop resistance to nature-derived drugs. However, this new method could allow scientists to jump several steps ahead of microbes, said Robert Berwick, a computational linguistics and engineering professor at MIT who wasn't part of the team.

Peptides are small proteins that attack the membrane walls of microbes causing it to rupture, said Georgetown University surgery professor Michael Zasloff, who first discovered antimicrobial peptides 19 years ago.

The key turns out to be in the way the peptides are made, which is by stringing together amino acid molecules, which scientists represent with letters. And that's when researchers saw a pattern that would make an English teacher beam.

"You have a string of letters and that string of letters reminds you immediately of a sentence, a kind of incomprehensible sentence, and you wonder in that sentence, 'Is that meaning hidden?'" asked Stephanopoulos. He used the example of a sentence: "Dave asks a question." What Stephanopoulos did was the equivalent of substitute different names for Dave and found that the peptide often still beat the bacteria.

Harvard evolutionary biologist Marc Hauser said that using grammar rules to decode genetics and medicine is growing more popular. But he said he worries that too many people are calling grammar what is really just simple code, not nearly as complicated as human language.

Berwick said the bacteria-fighting grammar rules are equivalent to the extremely basic spelling rule, "i before e except after c." The grammar rules Stephanopoulos developed are about what 2-year-olds learn on their own by listening to adults speak, he said.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: intellligentdesign; justrandomchance
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Grammar, language, intelligence, design?
1 posted on 10/19/2006 6:25:16 AM PDT by Grig
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To: lonevoice

A code is a code, even the most rudimentary ones. It takes intelligence to create a code, period.


2 posted on 10/19/2006 6:32:25 AM PDT by Pride in the USA
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To: Grig

No, chemistry.

To oversimplify: KOH, NaOH (potassium hydroxide, sodium hydoxide) have similar properties.


3 posted on 10/19/2006 6:34:19 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: Grig
Grammar, language, intelligence, design?

"The grammar rules Stephanopoulos developed are about what 2-year-olds learn on their own by listening to adults speak, he said."

Or kind of like it just evolved and required no special tinkering or teaching.

Are you an IDer so intent upon seeing something there that you a). didn't read the story you posted or b.) are completely misinterpreting an analogy to fit your preconceived notions?

Or maybe I am just reading into your brief comment to much.

4 posted on 10/19/2006 6:36:13 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (War is Peace__Freedom is Slavery__Ignorance is Strength)
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To: Grig

This seems it would work not.


5 posted on 10/19/2006 6:36:40 AM PDT by claudiustg (Iran delenda est.)
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To: Grig

Since the principal researcher is at MIT, maybe he could enlist MIT's most famous grammarian, Noam Chomsky, in the work -- thereby to attract support from Hugo Chavez!


6 posted on 10/19/2006 6:37:58 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: From many - one.

I agree - it really doesnt have anything to do with grammar. All they are saying is that simple rules can, in most cases, determine which compounds are useful and which are not.


7 posted on 10/19/2006 6:38:22 AM PDT by linear (Taxonomy is a willing and pliant mistress but Reality waits at home, sharpening her knife.)
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To: Pride in the USA
A code is a code, even the most rudimentary ones. It takes intelligence to create a code, period. And while you are at it, could you perhaps tell me how much wood a woodchuck would chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?
8 posted on 10/19/2006 6:38:27 AM PDT by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (War is Peace__Freedom is Slavery__Ignorance is Strength)
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To: Grig
Scientists use grammar to fight nasty bacteria (Intellligent Design?)

Apparently, spelling suffers in the process...

9 posted on 10/19/2006 6:41:09 AM PDT by mikrofon (j/k ;)
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To: Grig
If, as this article implies, DNA is a run-time interpreted language like javascript or basic, that raises the order of complexity of genetics by several orders of magnitude.

It is one thing to propose a static genetic map, because such a thing could (at least we are told) occur in nature by accident or random chance. Despite odds that are so great that we could easily insure against this "accident" by purchasing PowerBall tickets, it turns out that not only must the spelling of each "word" in the DNA be perfect, but that each "word" must be used in the correct order in a strict grammar.

If you take the amount of time in the universe, times the number of atoms, it still exceeds the odds of such a thing happening by random accident by quite a large amount. In short, there is not enough time in the universe for this to be an accident.
10 posted on 10/19/2006 6:41:22 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: Grig

I are wonder if this work won't...there, my cold's gone!!!


11 posted on 10/19/2006 6:47:48 AM PDT by Andonius_99 (They [liberals] aren't humans, but rather a species of hairless retarded ape.)
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To: theBuckwheat

You know if this is the case, this could work on viruses as well, especially aids and hepatitis c.

What ever the arguements about "grammar"...lets get this stuff out of the labs and into the medical hospitals, I see too much nosocomial staph infections that just kill our elderly and weakest folk.

I wonder if the peptide work could be used against cancers as well!


12 posted on 10/19/2006 6:50:17 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (Save the Republic! Mess with the polling firms' heads!)
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To: claudiustg

This "code" is much sipler, more on a level with parts of speech:

This seems it would helicopter not.

(replacing verb with noun)


13 posted on 10/19/2006 6:50:23 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: Grig

And everyone thought I was just being nitpicky as hell. I'm saving lives here, people! ;)


14 posted on 10/19/2006 6:51:22 AM PDT by Xenalyte (Viva EspaƱa!)
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To: From many - one.

sipler=simpler

me caffeine needing


15 posted on 10/19/2006 6:52:09 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: theBuckwheat
Bad analogy. What number wins one powerball has (theoretically) no influence on what number wins any other round. In the case of evolution, the strategies that increase probability of survival don't change randomly every time; instead the same strategies keep working, which is why there is enormous pressure to develop vision, locomotion, camouflage, etc. If the powerball kept coming up with the same winning number every time, an evolutionary process could easily come up with a strategy to choose it. A better example is "Who wants to be a millionaire?", in which random chance could win, but in which people selected for speed, choice of smart friends, and a great memory for lots of trivia, have a significantly better than random chance of winning.
16 posted on 10/19/2006 7:02:00 AM PDT by coloradan (Failing to protect the liberties of your enemies establishes precedents that will reach to yourself.)
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To: coloradan
The problem with evolution is that of biogenesis. Life only springs from life. It is an issue that supporters of evolution avoid like Dracula avoids the sunlight, but it remains nevertheless. In order to work, DNA must be sufficiently correct to not only function, but to reproduce. Otherwise, there is no life and we cannot be having this dialog.

But, as we are constantly lectured, things "evolve" from a primitive state to a complex one. If DNA spontaneously appeared (and how else could it have appeared if there is no Creator?), then how many spontaneous appearances must have occurred until it was sufficient?

I don't know of any lab experiments where DNA has spontaneously appeared even in conditions that were constructed to all but beg the soup to be fruitful in creating this molecule. Yet, for evolutionists, their creator "god" is time. Given enough time, any hoped-for molecule can appear. Given enough time, their creator can create anything.

My point is there has simply not been enough time back to the beginning of our time-horizon of some 13.7 billion years for this to occur. The odds are many magnitudes greater than the odds of winning PowerBall.
17 posted on 10/19/2006 7:17:12 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: Grig

It's just organic chemistry. The science of chemistry is simply learning and exploiting the 'grammar rules' of molecules in order to predict their properties, learn how they change and how they react react. Similar chemicals in similar environments will behave in similar ways. It's all nature. All chemistry obeys relatively simple rules.


18 posted on 10/19/2006 7:20:12 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

So the grammar rules are "about what 2-year-olds learn on their own by listening to adults speak". Doesn't that two year old require some intelligence to absorb an understanding of such rules? Don't the adults the two year old is around have to have intelligence to speak normally for those rules to get picked up? Yet here we have some bacteria with no innate intelligence conforming to a set of 'grammatical rules'. Doesn't prove anything either way, but I'd say there is good reason for ID'ers to find this interesting.


19 posted on 10/19/2006 7:21:33 AM PDT by Grig
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To: theBuckwheat
You're changing the subject. No one has any greater chance of winning the powerball than anyone else, so for example those who win can't pass their "secrets" to their children, and get them to win as well; not so with life. Those that are stronger, faster, more perceptive, more clever, etc. have a significant survival advantage over others, and they therefore have a signficantly higher chance of reproducing, that is, passing those traits along to their offspring. The next generation, in turn starts from the point of excellence given to them by their parents (who made it long enough to reproduce). The idea that "random chance" leads to evolution is misleading, because although there is some randomness in mutations and in the happenings that can kill or save a given individual, there are extremely non-random pressures that greatly shape the generational landscape. For example, a gazelle that is blind can't see the best places to graze, and can't see an approaching lion - so it is sure to die early. This amounts to enormous pressure to be able to see.

The same argument can be applied at the molecular level to self-replicating molecules. The fact that scientists in 50 or 100 years haven't been able to duplicate the emergence of DNA doesn't disprove the possibility that it can occur given the millions of cubic miles of oceans, and billions of years of terrestrial existence. (Time isn't their only "god" as you put it, the vastness of the oceans is equally incomprehisibly gigantic and can also afford the opportunity for extremely unlikely events.)

Let me ask you this: suppose scientists were able to do so: would you abandon your faith?

20 posted on 10/19/2006 7:42:35 AM PDT by coloradan (Failing to protect the liberties of your enemies establishes precedents that will reach to yourself.)
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