Posted on 10/17/2006 9:54:24 PM PDT by MadIvan
Britons gave overwhelming backing last night to a call for a ban on full-face Muslim veils.
Ninety-eight per cent of Daily Express readers agreed that a restriction would help to safeguard racial harmony and improve communication.
Our exclusive poll came as ministers stepped up the pressure on Muslim leaders to demonstrate "real leadership" in the fight against extremism.
Thousands of readers registered their alarm amid mounting concern that the veil is a barrier to good race relations.
The controversy was underlined by yesterday’s Daily Express revelation that bosses at a medical school have barred Muslim students from wearing the veil. Instead, they must show their faces when talking to patients and in meetings with colleagues.
The debate – sparked when the Commons Leader Jack Straw said he had asked women to remove their veils during meetings – continued yesterday as two Cabinet ministers joined the row.
Communities Secretary Ruth Kelly dismissed claims that the Government was "demonising" Muslims, insisting everybody had a part to play in responding to the extremist threat.
"This is not just a problem for Muslim communities. The Far-Right is still with us, still poisonous, still trying to create and exploit divisions," she said.
"Extremism is an issue for all of us. We all must play our part in responding to it."
Councils will have to set out how they intend to prevent radicalisation in their communities. After talks with police chiefs and local authorities, Ms Kelly said: "We really have to raise our game. We have to work in a new way to face up to the size of the threat."
She refused to back down on moves to withdraw support for Muslim groups that failed to take a leading role in tackling extremism but said the Government was "absolutely committed" to working with organisations with a "genuine commitment" to pluralism.
In a letter to Muhammad Abdul Bari, head of the Muslim Council of Britain, she rejected claims that ministers would not work with those who disagreed with Government policy.
But she added: "I don’t accept that those in leadership positions can be passive in tackling extremism and yet expect government support. The question the public are not unreasonably asking is why should any organisation object to taking a leadership role in tackling extremism?"
Her letter followed Dr Bari’s claim that ministers were "marginalising" Muslims with comments such as Mr Straw’s suggestion that Muslim women should remove their veils.
Dr Bari said: "What is happening… has been a barrage of demonisation of the Muslim community to such an extent that the community is now scared and feels vulnerable."
The decision to ban veils was taken by Birmingham University school of medicine. In the Daily Express poll, 98 per cent of readers said veils should be banned from all hospitals.
Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell said women who covered their faces were failing to take their full place in society.
"The veil is a symbol of women’s subjugation to men," she said. "Women who are heavily veiled, whose identity is obscured to the world apart from their husbands, cannot take their full place in society."
But one Muslim Labour MP accused colleagues of playing into the hands of racists. Khalid Mahmood, MP for Birmingham Perry Barr, warned that "hype" over a small number of people encouraged "Muslim-bashing".
"The only people this will benefit is the Far-Right BNP," he warned. "It will also encourage extremists from the Muslim community who will say, ‘We told you so’."
Labour former Home Office Minister John Denham said ministers’ comments were exacerbating matters.
"In a situation where there is too little understanding between the Muslim community and the wider community, and vice-versa, it seems to be producing a defensiveness and lack of willingness to debate on the Muslim side and in the majority a sort of generalised feeling that Muslims as a whole pose some sort of threat to our entire way of life," he said.
Tory leader David Cameron said everyone in Britain had a right to wear what they liked although Mr Straw had "raised a legitimate issue".
Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”
Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. [she made tree's bleed?] I must also make Eve stupid, [women are stupid] although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”
Qur’an 4:11 “Allah directs you in regard of your Children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females…. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.”
Bukhari:V1B22N28 “The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.’ When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.’”
(like being told to wear a veil)
Muslim:B1N142 “‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.’”
(and being suckered into thinking waering a veil is freedom)
Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”
(Max. freedom)
Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”
(Showing skin, now that is NOT freedom. We have it backwards in the west. Put on those fredom veils!)
Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”
(And further proved by women thinking a veil or else death! is freedom)
Qur’an 24:34 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here’s the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”
That Allah, what a swell, forgiving guy (unless you forget to wear your veil)
If Muslim women are coming to the US or the UK and are still wearing their veils and such, I assume they like being treated as second class citizens. I won't interfere in their religion.
However, culturally, we place a huge importance on being able to look the person we are speaking to and dealing with in the eye. Do you trust someone who won't look at you? Does it make you uncomfortable to have a discussion with someone who is wearing sunglasses?
I would prefer not to deal with someone who I cannot look at face to face. Does/will the government make it discrimination to not hire a veil wearing Muslim because customers would not feel comfortable with someone they cannot look at?
They are free to wear their veils as long as the rest of us are free to refuse to deal with them.
It's been pointed out to me by someone who was educated in a convent school in the 1950s that the nuns of the period (before habits gradually became less enveloping) did exactly that - little to choose between a 1950s wimple and the niqab in what was revealed! She did say, however, that at no time did this impede communication to her pupils of a nun's state of mind - which most of the time was pretty fierce...
Your statement is a non-sequitur. Everything is relative in a society. You have the freedom to do anything you want within limits i.e. swinging your club within striking distance of my snout.
"Do Amish women have a good reason to hide their faces?"
They don't hide their faces.
Had to read the headline twice - I thought it said that "Veal" should be banned.
Lock 'em up!
You wouldn't?
I think that wearing ski masks may be illegal in places here,,bank robbers and all you know.
The veil is a symbol of hatred, death and subjugation
It's common throughout the English speaking world to prohibit masks in public.
Now, whatever you want to do at home, do so ~ chain yourself to the bed if you wish ~ I don't care, but you have no right to intimidate me.
Alternatively, go live in a place where wearing masks in public is the norm.
So women merely covering their faces is a threat to society? Please get back to me when you have evidence that the veil encourages suicide, drug addiction, sodomy, or whatever...
Covering your face in public is a threat to me personally. End of story.
Blair criticised people wearing the veil, yet his wife, Cherie, a lawyer, sued the government for the right of a schoolgirl to wear a burkha to school, and won.
You can still SEE HER FACE. Big difference!
It encourages islam. That's close enough.
You are correct. But there is a territory beyond freedom called "license," and some of those who say the West is in that territory now have compelling arguments.
When something is called freedom but its primary effect is to allow people to endanger the other freedoms, it is license.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.