Posted on 10/17/2006 5:33:07 PM PDT by Adam-ondi-Ahman
500,,170mm Koksan SP guns,,200mlrs,,500+ SCUDS,,100 No-Dong 10,000 guns total,,est.500,000 rnds per hr for several hours,,70% of NK army within 100mi. of the border,,,,, est. 300,000 to 500,000 casualties first 90 days(military)
"If there is even so much as an interdiction, they will attack the south (Seoul)."
Have their been any reports of people leaving Seoul in anticipation of an attack?
What did post #17 say?
Having made a few of those SSBN patrols, I would be the first to say that this is definitely case for strategic deterrence.
Especially if it were to prevent the deaths of millions in Seoul, who are the balance in this little game of blackmail.
it's not like they're going to use up all of their fuel -- and just one usable bomb is enough to do incalculable damage to South Korea, namely Seoul. Probably better that they not do any more tests and never learn how to get anything better than a fizzle.
Grew up an Army brat. Well aware of the situation, and when TSHTF, it will be ugly. We do have some capabilities deployed, jointly, that preclude the worst case scenario. But realistically, it must be recognized as a possibility. Appeasement and basketballs just do not always do the trick.
Roger-That,,,NK arty can flatten Seoul without ever crossing the 38th parallel,,,They can hunker-down in their holes and make ROK Army come to them,,Worst Case,,IMHO.
you wrote:
"This puts the US and Japan in an untenable position. If there is even so much as an interdiction, they will attack the south (Seoul). So the compassion of peaceful nations is used for nuclear and economic negotiation, with a city of ten million people as the bargaining chip. Not to mention the global economic disruption that would result from evacuating from the 38th several clicks south. This is a lose-lose scenario for the US, Japan, and ROK. DPRK does not have much more to lose."
STOP THE POST(lol).
You are playing a fool's game here..the kind they want us to play.
How bout we don't play it for a change?
How bout we announce that we are pulling all of our troops completely OUT OF SK.
We are 'redeploying' our naval fleet off the coast of Japan or Tawain or both.
In other words:.....'we have our folks out...you make a move..and your toast'!!
How's THAT for diplo talk?
Who in the hell ever told you that the US would be 'required' to only move 'south' a few kilometers in the event of a big bang up with NK?
I have to wonder at this point what side of global reality you reside on?
North Korea would spend most of their GDP to set off a series of firecrackers.
Kim keeps jumping up and down screaming that "this" is an act of war or "that" is an act of war. It's time to call his bluff (but with a baseball bat in tow just in case).
The US and Japan had better start giving serious consideration to a complete naval blockade of North Korea while simultaneously issuing a joint statement via a press conference that ANY North Korean provocation against ANY of its neighbors will be viewed as an attack against the United States and Japan and that such an attack will be met with deliberate and overwhleming retalitory force. End of statement - no questions, no follow-ups. Just let the concept sink in with the NKs for a few minutes. Within minutes, China will be calling 'ol Kimmie to tell him to knock the crap off or THEY will go in after him.
Left unchecked or left to fetter under the United Nations, the NKs will succeed in their nuclear blackmail. Right now, they can rain death upon Seoul within minutes. They need to understand, however, that doing so will result in the utter destruction of both the "dear leader" and all of North Korea as they know it. This reality check needs to be done publicly.
Today.
Gotcha.
DPRK M-1978 Koksan gun:
Range estimated at "40,000 m" to "over 50km"
24 miles / 40 km = extended range full-bore hollow-base (ERFBHB)
30 miles / 50 km = extended range full-bore base-bleed (ERFBBB)
35 miles / 60 km = rocket assisted projectile (RAP)
[unqualified reports of up to 70km range are implausible]
Ammunition
* high-explosive
* submunition projectiles
* biological or chemical
Max Rate of Fire 1-2 rds per 5 min (estimate)
Max Speed 40 km/hr approx
Road Range 300 km approx
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/m-1978-170.htm
There are a couple of trolls on this thread so I will post my email response to those trolls that think Clinton is clean in this NK fiasco.
Clinton by giving Il the light water reactors and therefore the capability to make fissle material all on Il's word that he wouldn't do it is part of the great misunderstanding that liberals have of the world. Can we agree that Il is a madman. Ok, by arming a madman Clinton delayed the inevitable and Bush who obviously is not a liberal and therefore not as tolerant as Clinton, is the one that has to clean up the mess. Following liberal logic after 911 we were supposed to continue to allow Saddam Hussein to game the UN with the Oil For Food scandal and continue to work towards development of WMD which he then would have smuggled into the U.S. or Israel through a terrorist group. Take your pick Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezzbollah, Islamic Jihad, Taliban, etc.. Obviously Saddam wanted to strike at America and he wanted to do it with WMD. So I ask if we can agree that if given the opportunity to strike at the U.S. Saddam would have done so. I think we can all agree that he would, so the bottom line is that the U.S. is safer and the world is better without Saddam in power. If you want to hold Bush accountable for the prosecution of Iraq and for intel failures that is a totally different issue than saying we should never have went in. You cannot have it both ways either Saddam is in power or he isn't. I prefer the world without him controlling Iraq. Insurgency, civil war, who knew. Anyway that is what we are dealing with now and our military is doing a mighty fine job dealing with it and the plan of putting Iraqi forces in place is working albeit slow for liberals. Now back to NK. Bush being diplomatic on NK and seeking China's help via the 6 party talks is the only real threat to Il and therefore the only real solution to the problem. Please study the entire situation, also if you happen to be a real looney liberal and subscribe to the PNAC conspiracy 911 theories etc.. well ask yourself this simple question. How can Bush be so smart to pull off a vast conspiracy involving so many people to create the illusion that terrorists attacked us on 911 took down the WTC and hit the Pentagon and yet he couldn't plant and find WMD in and empty Iraqi desert with a small detail of specially trained and planted cadre of insiders? He would have quelled all the Liberal no WMD claims and been raised to hero status. Anyway as you See it doesn't fit, right, so don't believe all the hype that the looney left has spewed forth in their hatred of Bush and America. Do some homework and lets truly find out what the best way forward for this country is at this time in out history.
You wrote:
"I just dont agree with the idea of nuking a population that are held absolute captive by a Stalinist pendeho. Why should they have to suffer for the ills of a Jong-il?
They dont even know of the international communities response in the UN yet, and the only news they get is State sanctioned hypno-babble.
You must agree with me, unless you adhere to the idea of death as a form of liberation, which is more Shia Islam than Secular Western Enlightenment philosophy. Shall we martyr them to liberate them from their miserable lives???
Come on man..."
I got an idea 'man'..why don't you rally the hollywood/san francisco lefties,Madonna and Fat Lips to run on over to NK and start adopting whole families before we bomb them to kingdom come?
It would make great press for the Limo LIBS and Kimdunghill would probably welcome it!!
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