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To: Defiant

"I see. If I don't grant the "integrity of the issue or the cause" then I am less an American"

IMO, you don't "see". Might makes right does it? The fact that some people died to be free of the Crown and form a "loose" federation of independent colonies that required yet another war between them to bind them into the strong nation we all enjoy today is not an apology. Likewise the fact that 150 years later the issue is still hot button, testifies to its integrity. The essential conflict-that under what circumstances must independent men be expected or required to bind themselves to a larger political entity - is just as valid today. Some of us wonder where the 10th Ammendment went, while others debate the pros & cons of centralized world government. The issue, the debate, and the heritage are all uniquely American. I'm sorry you choose to reject such heritage.


85 posted on 10/18/2006 2:16:00 PM PDT by mo
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To: mo
Your position is very romantic and pure, but it is not for this forum and on this post to debate the legal aspects of the civil war. Such a debate has already consumed entire forests, as well as Nathan Bedford Forest. Regardless of the merits of that debate, it really is quite odd for an American to be so consumed with the notion in 2006 that this should be a nation of 50 separate nation states. We'd be a nation of 50 separate German or Arabic speaking states, living in dirt shacks, under your view of how America should have been governed. Not only that, but had your view prevailed, and the south been allowed to go its merry way, the future devastation caused by that cowardly decision would have made the Civil War look like a stroll in the park.

The south was not going to change its economy or its "peculiar institution" of slavery anytime soon. It would have lasted at least until well into the 20th century, a century in which Russia industrialized (after eliminating serfdom in 1865), Germany emerged as a leading Eurasian power, and Japan sought to take over the Pacific. A CSA side by side with a USA would have been a very dangerous thing, especially considering the CSA's desire to take over all of Mexico.

No one knows how history would have changed with a CSA and a USA, and the prevalance of your view of the right of secession. I firmly believe, however, that it would have been bad. Very bad. I also believe that Lincoln was correct in finding divine providence in the outcome of the civil war. It allowed the emergence of American global leadership, and that leadership is all that has saved the world from a newer form of slavery. We are still fighting for our vision of the world, and with luck and good leaders, we may yet eliminate the current threats to creation of a global system of free nations, those being Islam and the remnants of communism in China and Russia.

In any event, what you wanted to happen 150 years ago would have led to a far more dangerous world, one in which evil men continued to beat and whip enslaved men within a so-called civilized country for many more decades, and one in which the goodness of America would have been subsumed by that evil and its weakness the subject of predation by foreign maniacs. But you go on living your fantasies.

I have predecessors on both sides of that war. I don't judge too harshly those who fought for their state, even if in a bad cause, because they were products of their time. But I do find glory in those who saw the moral and practical issues that were presented, and chose to do the right thing. Lee was not one of those, and while he had "honor" as he understood, he is not worthy of honor by those who know better. You should know better.

96 posted on 10/18/2006 3:51:16 PM PDT by Defiant (The War on Terror is not a football game with a clock. It is a Steel Cage Death Match.)
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