Britain 'held hostage' by US policy [Britain's top General]

Scotsman (Britain) ^ | 15OCT06 | Brian Brady

[familyop]

BRITAIN'S top soldier spoke out against the government's handling of the campaign in Iraq because he feared Britain was being "held hostage" by US policy in the region, friends claimed last night.

General Sir Richard Dannatt sparked a furious row over Tony Blair's foreign policy last week when he warned that British troops should leave Iraq soon because they were "exacerbating the security problems" there.

Allies of Sir Richard last night claimed he had been expressing deep concerns shared by colleagues in the highest ranks of the military - and that the real target of his attack was Washington, not London.

"He believes we are being held hostage by American policy in a number of ways," said a senior army officer who served with Dannatt. "The Americans had not done enough planning for the peace that would follow the war-fighting phase.

"We have been the prisoners of American policy failures ever since. That is what a large proportion of our senior military officers think and it is what lies behind Sir Richard's comments."

Sir Richard is believed to favour focusing on the international effort in Afghanistan.

[LibLieSlayer]

This guy has is still active duty... why?

LLS

[DB]

Hmmm, I thought elected officials set foreign policy in the UK. Guess not...

And for the record, we pretty much let British troops secure the peace in their assigned areas however they chose. We all know what happened after their lectures on the gentler kinder way of doing things...

[rlmorel]

"...friends claimed last night.

...Allies of Sir Richard last night claimed...

...said a senior army officer who served with Dannatt...."

Now, I thought the guy should have been fired last week with his comments, but this is all from people who say he said things. Sounds like typical tabloid journalism.

[familyop]

You probably won't want to see this, either, then. I know that I didn't.

---

SUNDAY TELEGRAPH POLL

OCTOBER 2006

ICM Poll

Excerpt:

Q4. When do you think Britain should aim to pull its troops out of Iraq?
Now	41%
By the end of the year	13%
By the end of 2008	4%
Should stay until they are no longer needs	36%
Don't know / refused	5%
Q5. When do you think Britain should aim to pull its troops out of Afghanistan
Now	41%
By the end of the year	11%
By the end of 2008	5%
Should stay until they are no longer needs	37%
Don't know / refused	6%

[familyop]

There are uglier survey results on the way from over there.

---

Poll shows British public agrees with military chief that troops should pull out of Iraq

The Associated Press
by way of the International Herald Tribune
Published: October 15, 2006

LONDON A poll published Sunday said 74 percent of Britons agree with a controversial comment by their country's army chief that British troops should leave Iraq "sometime soon." He also won the support of several top newspapers.

---

I certainly don't believe that our US forces should cut and run, though. We need to put at least another brigade of our own in Basra to clean up the mess there and finish the job. Cutting Iran off from that part of Iraq would be a good start.

[The_Englishman]

Sounds like typical tabloid journalism.

Fortunately it is. Although they're really hammering this angle. However, Sir Richard's most recent remarks claim otherwise.

From the BBC

He later told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme that when he talked about pulling out of Iraq "sometime soon", he meant "then when the mission is substantially done we should leave".

"We don't want to be there another two, three, four, five years. We've got to think about this in terms of a reasonable length of time."

He said the view that the presence of UK troops "exacerbates" the problems was "not right across the country", but in parts of it.

And he later said in a statement: "I'm a soldier - we don't do surrender, we don't pull down white flags. We will remain in southern Iraq until the job is done - we're going to see this through."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046822.stm

[Mac1]

sometimes I wonder why these people speak to the media given that anything they say can and will be used against them

[Mi-kha-el]

"Sounds like typical tabloid journalis."

Is there any other?

[rlmorel]

Boy, you hit that one on the head. Seems like that is all we get from the printed media today.

They are Dead Men Walking (the media) and they do not know it.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

"...friends claimed last night.

...Allies of Sir Richard last night claimed...

...said a senior army officer who served with Dannatt...."

Definition of Hearsay.

[DB]

Is that directed at me?

[daylate-dollarshort]

"malaka"?? I think Bwanaman thinks you're a Brit.......

[familyop]

Bwanaman wrote:
"malaka"

Here's a link to a definition of "malaka" for all to see. It's important that Americans see the truth of what's going on in foreign relations.

And while we're at it, "bwana"...

One difference between the USA and the UK, is that regards for Britons by people in the USA are nearly all positive, while far too many Britons dislike Americans and regard us negatively. There are almost no anti-British statements in US media, while the British media very often spew dishonesty and hardly-veiled hatred against the USA.

[mathurine]

Being ready for evaluation by the antique road show, I remember when General MacArthur became famously insubordinate to President Truman. Despite the disparate popularity of the General and the President, after a certain amount of time, the President prevailed. I don't know much about how the British Parliamentary system works under circumstances like this. I suppose the protocols could be complicated, which may be why resignations over there are more common under such circumstances. If the General resigned and then articulated his reasons, that would probably create a situation of greater profundity than this has. Let's see how the Brits work it out in their way, and it would be interesting to hear from some British freepers as to what, exactly, is going on. Could it be that with parliamentary elections coming up next year, the ruling party wants or needs to have a reason to change its Iraq policy before it goes down to defeat over it?

[monkeywrench]

Troll!

[MadIvan]

One difference between the USA and the UK, is that regards for Britons by people in the USA are nearly all positive, while far too many Britons dislike Americans and regard us negatively. There are almost no anti-British statements in US media, while the British media very often spew dishonesty and hardly-veiled hatred against the USA.

The only Americans I hate are the ones that are being dishonest about Britain. Let's take this stage by stage -

The polls you posted show a majority against leaving "now". Still, let's also consider how questions are phrased - if people in the United States were asked if they would prefer that their boys are home or fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan, how would they answer? No one sane wants their lads to be in danger. It's a question if they understand why they're there and want to see it through.

Secondly, as The Englishman quite rightly showed, you're helping to spread a tabloid myth. Sir Richard was quoted out of context - congratulations, you're the waterboy for the media. You're doing their dirty work.

You're also doing Osama's dirty work by trying to undermine the image of Britain (and other countries) in the eyes of Americans and thus divide the alliance. I have to say if America wants to turn its back on Britain, fine, it's their choice. But before they respond to your cheap propaganda, perhaps they ought to consider the fine young people who have been killed fighting alongside America before they consider anything you have to say.

Ivan

[LibLieSlayer]

It just could be. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Isn't it funny that General Douglas MacArthur was angry because he wanted to fight to Absolute Victory, while a sitting dim President would settle for something far less. Today we have ALL members of the Military wanting to fight this thing to Absolute Victory, and sitting dim congress-critters and Senators want to settle for appeasement and surrender.

I would pay Any amount of money to see General George Patton slap the sh!t out of lurch! "We have no place in this Country for a coward like you. I should, BY GOD, take you outside and shoot your yellow a$$ right between the eyes"!

LLS

[familyop]

Foreign relations problems need to be solved--not covered up. The following shows attitudes of Britons toward the USA. People in the USA do not have such attitudes toward Britons.

---

YouGov / Daily Telegraph Survey Results

June 26-28, 2006

[Excerpts:]

Also taking everything into account, would you say your overall
opinion of the US has...?                                                                              %

                                                            Gone up a lot in recent years                3

                                                         Gone up a little in recent years               17

                                                     Gone down a little in recent years              47

                                                        Gone down a lot in recent years              22

                                                                                          Don't know             11


How much confidence do you have in the ability of the United
States to deal wisely with present world problems?

                                                                               Very great confidence         1
 
                                                                           Considerable confidence        11

                                                                                         Little confidence        39

                                                                                 Very Little confidence        28

                                                                                                  None at all        16

                                                                                                  Don't know          6


How would you rate George W. Bush as a world leader?

                                                                                   He is a great leader           1

                                                                    He is reasonably satisfactory         15

                                                                           He is a pretty poor leader         34

                                                                                 He is a terrible leader         43

                                                                                                   Don't know           7

Do you think the American forces are doing a good job or a bad
job of helping to bring democracy to Iraq?

                 Yes, they are doing a good job of helping to bring democracy to       24

                No, they are not doing a good job of helping to bring democracy       54

                                                                                                     Don't know        23

Some people claim that the United States is essentially an
imperial power, one that wants to dominate the world by one
means or another. Do you think it is, or is not, fair to describe              %
American as an imperial power?

                                                 Yes, it is fair to describe America in that way       58
                                            No, it is not fair to describe America in that way       28
                                                                                                       Don't know       14

Here is a list of paired words and phrase.
Which word or phrase in each pair do you think more accurately
describes the United States today?                                                                  %

                                                                                                            Caring         19

                                                                                                        Uncaring          60

                                                                                                     Don't know          21


                                                                                             Divided by class          63

                                                                                        Relatively classless          26

                                                                                                      Don't know          12


                                                                                                             Vulgar          65

                                                                                                  Sophisticated            9

                                                                                                      Don't know          26


                                                                                                          Well led           10

                                                                                                        Badly led           75

                                                                                                      Don't know          14


                                                                                                          Cultured           23

                                                                                                      Uncultured           56

                                                                                                      Don't know           22


                                                                                                         Religious           61

                                                                                                        Irreligious           14

                                                                                                       Don't know           25