Posted on 10/11/2006 4:15:03 AM PDT by Renfield
Davids Medienkritik discovered deep condescension toward America from a German executive whose company makes most of its money here. Porsche CEO Wendelin Wiedeking defends the German “social model” of capitalism, and implies that we Americans are barely out of the backwoods with our rifles.
Europe’s culture is decidedly older than that of the USA. The Fuggers were doing business, while hunting was still the order of the day in America. Right now 37 million people in the USA live below the poverty line. The gulf between poor and rich has widened brutally. Do we want to have a situation like that in Europe and particularly in Germany?
Why would anyone buy an expensive car from a company whose head looks down on him?
I wonder what Herr Wiedeking has to say about the Japanese after a beers?
I don´t see why Americans are so proud of their victory over Germany (1944/45). America joined the war when Germany was already on the retreat in the East (44/45). I mean, the American soldiers were fresh, they were well equipped, had the support from the liberated nations and were confronted with an enemy who was fighting for years, with heavy losses at home (families bombed out) and for a regime that lied to them and banned all opposition. The turning point in WW2 was not D-Day, but Stalingrad. Ok, the western front could not be opened without America (Britain wasn´t strong enough). So, without D-Day, Germany and France would have been Soviet satellite states. That´s due credit, but not the defeat of Germany. Nazi Germany was broken by the Soviets and Brits (air battle of Britain).
The answer is simple enough. They are proud because it was a great and difficult victory, won at great cost against a regime of unspeakable evil, who had a large, skilled and war hardened army, equipped with the best weaponry in the world. An army who held the advantage of the defensive position. It was a victory against a totalitarian country that was intent on world domination. Also, don't forget that the US was also fighting a 2 front war.
Having said that, you are right in stating that the Russians were the main contributors to German defeat. That leaves 2 questions: could the Russians have defeaated Germany so completely without help from the other allies, and could the UK and the US have defeated her without help from the USSR? I'm not knowledgable to answer either question, but would like to hear from someone who thinks they can. Germany would have had a lot of extra resources to bring to bear against Russia, had they not been occupied in the west. OTOH, the US had resources in the Pacific that could portentially have been of use. In any case, I think we would not have become involved had not Hitler declared war on the US.
Of course if a person is unambitious and a social leech, they would be better off in Germany than the US.
I am not only proud of the victory over the Nazis (yes it was a team effort, I agree), I am proud that we had the humanity to build up the vanquished with The Marshall Plan, and defended freedom in West Berlin during the Airlift, and stood by West Germany in the darkest days of the Cold War.
As I said above, without D-Day the Soviets would have "liberated" France. Germany was running out of ressources and capacities and on the retreat. Granted, without D-Day, Germany could have delayed its defeat, but it could not have prevented it. Russia had the men and the energy ressources to overrun Germany. I can´t prove that. A historian could do that, perhaps. It´s just my view of WW2. So, if you say that the pride of the victory comes from the moral superiority, that´s ok.
That wasn´t my point of criticism, as you know. :)
Do keep in mind that unlike the other allies, we were fighting the Japanese at the same time. The other Allies didn't have to deal with the Japanese to the extent that we did, and yet we still were a major force against the Nazis.
Exactly my position. We´re natural allies, and should be. Oh, and I´m sorry that you had to eat Sauerkraut AT HOLIDAY MEALS. I mean, I eat Sauerkraut salad sometimes or cooked with Bratwurst, but we never eat it on holidays.
Mmh... it has a negative sound, but I haven´t heard it for a while. Our state of economy is too bad to point fingers on others.
We still hunt with rifles.
I got two of them thingys one off the front of my house and an other on da backside.
And we (ok, though my grandpa´s were in the Wehrmacht I don´t identify myself with the Germany of 1933-45, so I don´t like saying "we") had a 4-fronts war. It´s right, America shouldered much of the burden to defeat Nazi Germany in the West, but it wasn´t the Wehrmacht of 1940, then.
Pretty damn cocky coming from a guy living of an economy rebuilt by the the Marshall Plan.
Who has a better chance to succeed in life, a poor child in the United States or a poor child in Europe? It is possible for an American child to study, and work their way out of poverty. What makes the United States better is the fact that to a large degree it is the individual themselves if they are poor or not. As someone earlier pointed out, stay in school, don't break the law, don't use drugs, and don't become a parent before you are married and you are well on the way to middle class.
There's that myth again about the superiority of the rugged individualist US GI vs the groupthink German landser in WWII.
Sorry but its just not so. Allied military historians of WWII, S.L.A. Marshall, Hugh Trevor-Roper, others, pretty much agree that man for man the German soldier of WWII was superior to everybody else, with the British Tommy coming a close second.
It came down to the training of the individual soldier and the quality of the small unit leadership, ie., the NCO corps. Theirs was better on both counts until nearly the end of the war, by that time pretty much the bravest, brightest and best were all dead or crippled.
The US swamped our enemies in materiel and that pretty much sums it up. If you've got more Shermans than they've got AT rounds for the 88, you win.
The average German general officer was superior to his opposite number in most respects too and high quality was the norm rather than the exception.
This is not to take anything away from the sacrifices and courage of anyone's individual soldier.
I'm not enough of a historian to really argue whether or not Germany could have held out against the USSR. I'm inclined to think they might have, had they retreated with their armies intact, rather than having spent them in Russia at Hitler's typical insistence that territory be held to the last man. In any case, I acknowledge that it's beyond argument that the Russians were easily the greatest force in the victory over Hitler.
I have some admittedly small acquaintence with the contributions made by the UK and the US, since my dad was in the first wave at D Day, (along with an Englishman in their forces who later became one of our closest family friends) and saw combat through the hedgerows of Normandy, the liberation of Paris, Hurtgen Forest and the Ardennes. These battles were not on the scale of those on the Eastern front, but certainly were not child's play either. But your point about Russia is certainly well taken.
I like sauerkraut pretty well, I guess our family tradition of eating it at Thanksgiving and Christmas is just a small and silly way of hanging on to a tiny bit of heritage. Daughter drives a German car, a mini, which the whole family loves. A damn good vehicle.
Went to an Octoberfest event in So Fl recently with daughter, had a great time, best part was listening to the band from Ocala, the "Swinging Bavarians!" They were great. Would like to see a real Octoberfest some day.
My father fought against the Germans, as I recounted in post 119, and I will say that he rated the German soldier as superior to the American. I mention the thing about self reliance as a possible advantage the American soldier may have had, but acknowledge that overall, the German soldier probably tended to be the better soldier. The one other advantage (aside from numbers and materiel) held by the American soldier was, I think, the Garand rifle.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.