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To: 8mmMauser; bjs1779; wagglebee; All
I went through the autopsy report yet again last night. One target was to see what Drs. Thogmartin and Nelson had to say about Terri's supposed cortical blindness. Dr. Nelson noted only slight thinning of the cortical nerves with other cranial nerves relatively normal. He made no other comment, at least that I caught. What Dr. Thogmartin concluded was that cortical blindness was "indicated" due to the substantial damage to the occipital lobes. [That's from memory; my notes are on a different computer, which I'll check presently. I'll correct the above if needed.]

A couple of points. (1) Terri's vision was observed; by many observers, in fact. Her cortical blindness was deduced post mortem. (Obviously, it is impossible to test sight after death.) Observation is far more persuasive than deduction.

(2) It is perfectly possible that all doctors and observers were correct, if the cortical blindness was caused by Terri's terminal dehydration. It is also possible that Dr. Thogmartin misguessed. For instance, if the occipital lobes were not quite so bad, or if Terri's brain rewired its optical function a bit. The third possibility, that the ME deduced rightly and everybody else's observations were wrong over all the years, is too far-fetched to consider. Terri clearly had (limited) vision and some hearing as well, being responsive to both visual and audio stimuli. That was tested and observed repeatedly.

Dr. Hammesfahr commented, reasonably enough (#253), "Obviously, the pathologist's comments that she could not see were not borne out by reality, and thus his assessment must represent sampling error. The videotapes clearly showed her seeing, and even Dr. Cranford, for the husband, commented to her that, when she could see the balloon, she could follow it with her eyes as per his request."

255 posted on 10/14/2006 5:40:42 AM PDT by T'wit (It is not possible to "go too far" criticizing liberals. No matter what you say, they're worse.)
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To: T'wit
From the report:
"Mrs Shiavo showed marked global hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy resulting in massive cerebral atrophy. Her brain weight was approximately half of the expected weight. Of particular importance was the hypoxic damage to the occipital lobes, which indicates cortical blindness. Her remaining brain regions show severe hypoxic injury and neuronal atrophy/loss. No areas of recent or remote traumatic injury were found."

" A couple of points. (1) Terri's vision was observed; by many observers, in fact."

It was observed by none. That includes Cranford, which I already pointed out made an off the cuff remark, which was caught on media and used by the parents as part of their con. Cranford's conclusion after the full evaluation was that she was unresponsive to visual stimuli.

"Her cortical blindness was deduced post mortem. (Obviously, it is impossible to test sight after death.) Observation is far more persuasive than deduction."

It was determined that she was blind at autopsy, because they found no working mechanism to provide for the function of visual stimuli reception and processing. Note that the cause for the visual cotical loss was hypoxia and it loss meant the person was blind.

"It is perfectly possible that all doctors and observers were correct, if the cortical blindness was caused by Terri's terminal dehydration."

Note that the cause for the loss was hypoxia and the damage was old. Dehydration does not result in brain atrophy.

<" It is also possible that Dr. Thogmartin misguessed.

Amazing! I thought he was beyond questioning. Looks like that's the case only when he says something that fits your desired scenario.

"Terri clearly had (limited) vision ...being responsive to ... visual ... stimuli. That was tested and observed repeatedly.

No it was not. As the autopsy proved, she was blind. Bambekidis also concluded, that she was unreponsive.

256 posted on 10/14/2006 8:04:35 AM PDT by spunkets
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To: T'wit; spunkets

Our son was "blind" like Terri all his 26 year life, yet at times he could lock eyes with us ever so briefly, not as well as with Terri. When he did, he would beam a smile unmistakeable to us and anyone around. Doctors said he was blind. No autopsy for him, although his eyes hadn't dried out for thirteen days as did those of Terri.

I am fascinated how some are so anxious to prove justification for her killing. They will go to great lengths in detail just to find a flaw and somehow excuse the execution of an innocent.

Me, I am an unabashed conservative, do not track in the same footsteps of the far left, all of whom favored her killing and floated or pushed their agenda through attempted debunking of what actually happened.


258 posted on 10/14/2006 9:27:49 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: T'wit
Dr. Nelson noted only slight thinning of the cortical nerves with other cranial nerves relatively normal. He made no other comment, at least that I caught. What Dr. Thogmartin concluded was that cortical blindness was "indicated" due to the substantial damage to the occipital lobes

I don't know T'wit, if it was found that she could see that would pretty much rule out PVS wouldn't it? If was found that she could swallow, that would pretty much rule out PVS, wouldn't it? Then there is the 'pain' factor that is a prerequisite for PVS. I didn't see where he wanted to address that issue since records indicated that she was treated for pain over the years and even into the 'death process'.

259 posted on 10/14/2006 3:31:07 PM PDT by bjs1779
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