Confederate Flag Clothing Causes Controversy

WSBTV.com ^ | 10-6-2006 | WSBTV

[Colonel Kangaroo]

The principal at a Fayette County middle school has banned all clothing with the confederate flag emblem...

[MortMan]

They did not think each state had a right to govern its own people when they demanded that Northern States return runaway slaves and used the Federal gov't to enforce that law.

Your own reply is inconsistent within itself. The south believed that each state DID have the right to govern itself. They allowed slavery. The slaves were considered property. They wanted their property returned.

That's un-PC, but the fact is, they had a case. The northerners who aided and harbored runaway slaves, according to the legal system of the slave states, were holding stolen property.

[Neoliberalnot]

""This is the failure of PC""

The PC movement is not a failure. It is a roaring success designed to suppress opposing opinion. The PC clan has been very successful in implimenting speech codes on campuses and elsewhere.

[Al Gator]

What you wrote is a joke, right?

Because if you are serious, you are either a prevaricator or really, really ignorant.

[Polybius]

And the Confederate flag is a very poor symbol of Southern heritage. The Confedracy was a movement of a relatively small group of politicians and not a true popular revolution .......Colonel Kangaroo

The outrage over the Stars and Bars is totally contrived .......carrier-aviator

Why, in Germany today, is it a crime for Swastika to be displayed anywhere in public while the Iron Cross is still proudly used on German military aircraft and armor?

It is because the Swastika was the political symbol of Nazi Germany but the Iron Cross was the symbol of the valor of the German soldier.

If there is a gripe against the politicians of the Confederate States of America, then that gripe should be directed at the original political flag of the Confederacy, the "Stars and Bars", which is this flag:

The symbol of the valor of the Confederate soldier was the Confederate Battle Flag which was this flag:

If there is a symbol of the valor of the Southern common man who did his duty as he saw it to defend his homeland, that symbol is the Confederate Battle Flag.

It would be nice to get the Confederate Battle Flag out of the hands of political demagogues on both sides and restore it as the honored symbol of the Southern soldier.

However, the historical ignorance and/or hypocrisy is so great today that this "racist" Georgia flag:

was replaced by this "Politically Correct" flag:

So, the "racist" symbol of the Confederate common soldier was replaced by the "non-racist" symbol of the Confederate politician.

Go figure.

[azhenfud]

"The South did not attempt secession because they feared a strong central government."

The good Colonel did not mention secession, he stated Southerners were lukewarm in their support of the Confederacy of the Southern states or were outright Unionists, to which I countered.

His assertion was not quite correct.

[PeaRidge]

"The South did not attempt secession because they feared a strong central government."

They (South Carolina), followed by others, seceded due to the promises of the 1860 Republican platform that would stress the Southern culture and its economy. Infrastructure expenditures and taxation were about to be unequally applied to the sections. The Constitutional protections were being eliminated due to election reapportionment. They saw no remedy except for separation. But separation did not bring war.

"They did so because the Republicans ran on the platform of limiting the growth of slavery."

That was one issue. Another was the transcontinental railroad that was to be built with public funds. Its route would aid the growth of the Northern states over the Southern states, funded with the tariffs generated with the overseas sales of Southern products.

Another issue was the Morill tariff, designed to fund these projects. This would reduce the buying power of Southern products, and inflate the prices of Northern products sold South.

"This is what they saw as a threat to their 'rights'."

Actually, their "rights" were guaranteed by the American Constitution. The threat came from the Republicans, and the army they inherited.

"They did not think each state had a right to govern its own people when they demanded that Northern States return runaway slaves and used the Federal gov't to enforce that law."

The 'they' you refer to were Federal judges. And they enforced Federal law.

"This nation was either going to be either all free or all slave."

Lincoln said that before he was elected, but reneged on that in April of 1861.

"The Confederate flag represents the side that wanted it all slave."

The Confederate Flag represented the flag of the Confederate states and its Constitution of dozens of guaranteed rights. To select one and negatively label those people is absurd, ignorant, and naive.

"But this thread is on school clothing not the Confederate flag."

You brought it up to expound your abusive history lesson. Keep it to yourself.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

Unionist sentiment in the South was stronger than many today realize. There were many thousands of Southerners, especially in the non-slaveowning sections, who braved many hardships and dangers to reach Union lines.

Many southern citizens welcomed the Union army as liberators from confederate tyranny. Here's an diary entry from Illinois soldier Charles Partridge on his regiment's entry into Red Clay, Georgia:

"The Union citizens were quite demonstrative, some of them even bringing out flags, which had doubtless been hidden for at least three years. Women swung their bonnets and men hurrahed for the Yankees and the Union, manifesting great delight. One man, who claimed to be ninety-eight years old and to have been a captain in the War of 1812, was almost frantic in his ejaculations when the Old Flag came into sight."

Can you imagine the patriotic thrill today of the arrival of the American army into your town to free you from oppressors who would not even let you own the Stars and Stripes? There were many brave men in the CSA's front lines, but rebel government at home was brutal to the significant number who loved the old Union.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

And here's a admission from prominent Confederate and North Carolina Governor Zebulon Vance.

"The great popular heart is not now and never has been in this war. It was a revolution of the politicians, not the people."

[azhenfud]

"So it's OK for Southern serfs to attack Northern citizens, but not appropriate for the Northerners to respond."

You're grossly mistaken. Southerners never attacked Northern citizens, the occupants of Ft. Sumter were federal troops who were given time to stand down and leave the premises, which they didn't. Southerners never sought to overthrow the US government - but strived to form their own. It was Lincoln's army that crossed the Potomac to wage an attack on Virginia's citizens that was considered the act of aggression most Southerners associate with the WoNA.

[lovecraft]

And so, they formed a feudal system straight out of the middle ages.

Huh? The Confederate Constitution was very similar to our own.

So they formed their own standing army, and attacked the United States first.

Check your geography, Ft. Sumter is in South Carolina. Hmmm, a Fort of Union Troops on Confederate soil and they were asked to leave. The only bloodless battle of the war.

[riverdawg]

Yet another argument for school uniforms. Principals and school boards are utterly incapable of micro-managing dress codes - they cave in to political correctness (as in this example), get bogged down with arguments about skirts, skorts, and shorts, and other minutiae. But the anti-uniform crowd will show up here soon, protesting that uniforms suppress the little darlings' "individuality" and constitutional right to dress for school like thugs and hookers. /rant off

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SO IN ITALY IT SHOULD NOT BE FORBIDDEN TO WAVE "THIS" FLAG....

[orionblamblam]

> the occupants of Ft. Sumter were federal troops who were given time to stand down and leave the premises, which they didn't.

Yeah, and the Aztlaners have given you time to leave the US and return to Europe (presumably...). So when they attack you, will it be your fault?

> It was Lincoln's army that crossed the Potomac to wage an attack on Virginia's citizens that was considered the act of aggression most Southerners associate with the WoNA.

Yes, and a very great many Japanese were cheesed off when the Dolittle raid brought to them the war that they started.

The War Of Southern Aggression started when a sovereign nation attacked the United States military on US military property. Remember, the secession was a done deal by that point... South Carolina and other had already split, with no military action by the United States. The CSA committed an act of war upon the US, and the US retaliated.

[dblshot]

Interesting that both reporters are Black and Tom Jones makes excuses for Malcom X. Pretty biased reporting.

[fortheDeclaration]

First, I did not bring it up, it was brought up by several other posters.

Now, as for the facts.

Lincoln broke no pledges regarding the Constitution.

Some of the Southern States had seceded before he took office.

Lincoln did what any President would have done, he enforced the laws.

Regarding other economic issues, while they were factors, the key issue was slave expansion.

This was admitted by the Vice President of the Confederacy, A.H. Stephens, in his Cornerstone speech, saying the Confederacy was going to built on the Cornerstone of the inequality of the races, not the equality as depicted by the Declaration.

Regarding the fugitive slave act, it was legal, and the South had no qualms about using that 'dreaded' Federal power when it was their own purposes.

The facts are that the South split the Democratic Party over slavery before it even seceded from the Union.

The Confederacy and its flag do not represent freedom for anyone, they represent tyranny at its worst and crushing the Confederacy was one of the GOP's greatest moments.

[orionblamblam]

> The Confederate Constitution was very similar to our own.


Except for the permanent engraining of slavery. Not to mention the otherwise aristocratic nature of antebellum South; the rest of the population of America had come here to get away from European aristocrats, but in the south, they tried to re-create it. Shrug.

[sweet_diane]

Dress codes do help with what is on the clothing. Our school system has blue or white polo or button down shirts and khaki pants.

I'm amazed at what I see kids wearing in the mornings as they exit mom or dads car. The girls pants are so low they have to shave to wear them and their shirts aren't long enough to reach the waistband. Honestly, it looks as if the parents are turning the girls out to work the streets, not go to school.

Only because of what the Confederate flag has come to mean, I'd just as soon not see it or Malcom X or ANY political images on campus. There's already enough to distract the kids. IMHO, of course.

[fortheDeclaration]

"The South did not attempt secession because they feared a strong central government." The good Colonel did not mention secession, he stated Southerners were lukewarm in their support of the Confederacy of the Southern states or were outright Unionists, to which I countered. His assertion was not quite correct.

The Southern leadership pushed the South into secession, for a cause very few cared about-slave expansion.

Many Southerners did go North and fight for the Union.

It is interesting that Lincoln's name was not even allowed on the ballots in the South.

Those Southern leaders were true lovers of freedom alright.

[Republican Red]

If they are banning confederate clothing then I would also ban the FUBU clothing. I have seen this clothing line mushroom here in Atlanta. Little kids to adults are all donning their FUBU attire. I am very offended when I see the FUBU line.

In case you don't know, FUBU is a hip hop clothing line esigned by African-Americans for African-Americans.

In other words, For Us By Us

[orionblamblam]

> Check your geography, Ft. Sumter is in South Carolina. Hmmm, a Fort of Union Troops on Confederate soil and they were asked to leave.

The Union troops were on Federal property. They had every right to be there, just as the Marines at Gitmo have the right to be there (until the lease runs out, at any rate). If you are legally and properly occupying a spot of territory, the fact that your neighbors decide to up and leave doesn't mean they get to kick you off your land.

> The only bloodless battle of the war.

Hardly bloodless. It led to more deaths of Americans than Pearl Harbor did.