[hinckley buzzard]

It is my thought that the movement to cities and growth of cities will overcome the tribal allegiences that are territorial. Fathers and uncles are tribal, sons and cousins in cities pay lipservice. Grandsons forget about it altogether.

I think you are right, that urbanization weakens tribalism by replacing its allegiances with other forms of social organization that work better in non-rural, nonagrarian economic settings.

[ClaireSolt]

First, when people argue that the people of the Middle East have been doing things some way for thousands of years, I have to say, Oh really? How many thousand year old people live there? They are not the same people. So, this is a lame-brained, illogical argument.

Second, I doubt the frequent assertion that urbanization will promote democracy. In America, it is the urban centers that are controlled by machines, bosses and the maffia.

Tribalism is evidence of a lack of central control. You can trace the development of the French state from the time when Hugh Capet only controlled the Ile de Cite to the time of the Sun King who entertained the aristocracy at Versailles through a system of mutual agreements between the king and local vassals.

If you know that story, then you can understand how a national system is being developed similarly in Afghanistan and Iraq and Karsai, Maliki, and Musharref are now negotiating with recalitrant chiefs.