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To: Asclepius

"Dude. I am a Jew. "

Yes, of course I know that. You appear to not be very knowledgeable about Christianity and religion in general. I tried to state it succinctly so you would understand that to Christians, Jesus is the Messiah and therefore must be perfect.

Haven't you ever been curious why Christians hold onto the Old Testament of the Jews? It is because one can study the Bible and see that Jesus fulfilled all of the Messiah prophecies made by the Jews. As a Jew, you still await a Messiah. Do you believe the Messiah will be perfect or imperfect? If you think the Messiah is imperfect or simply a mythological fairy tale, then why even bother believing and why continue to call yourself a Jew?

For those who already believe the Messiah has come, we naturally believe that Jesus was without sin and perfect in the sense of morality. That doesn't mean we think Jesus never caught a cold or had a toothache or hit his thumb with a hammer or didn't get angry or didn't have a bad day or didn't hurt someone's feelings. You probably are thinking of perfection only in a human sense, but I am talking about perfection in a spiritual sense.


82 posted on 10/04/2006 10:15:21 AM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: Kirkwood
Haven't you ever been curious why Christians hold onto the Old Testament of the Jews?
Muslims do too. And why not? The stories are compelling, the wisdom relevant, and the mitzvot still valid. But if documents are removed from their context--they are the story of the experience of a people, after all, a very particular people--they sort of lose their meaning.
It is because one can study the Bible and see that Jesus fulfilled all of the Messiah prophecies made by the Jews.
As I wrote above, we don't see it. You seem to pick and choose *which* so-called messianic prophecies confirm what you already believe. And you seem to misunderstand the whole nature of prophecy as it is understood by the Hebrews. Prophecy is not fortune telling or divination. Pagans and gentiles do that sort of thing. Not us. Prophecy speaks to the historical moment in the language that attempts to mediate between human understanding and divine decree, and that mediation takes the form of a richly figurative language. The prophets were marginal figures whose lives and literatures generally assumed the character of a simpler, desert Judaism, the Judaism of nomadic tribes, calling out to what they believed was a more corrupt, urban Judaism, the Judaism of the temple and its priests. During the exile and post-exile periods the prophetic schools turned to attempting to preserve the Jewish communities by offering comfort and calling for a return to Jewish practice.
As a Jew, you still await a Messiah.
Not anxiously, no. We believe the messiah will return only when we have perfected ourselves enough to merit his coming, so in a sense we're all participating in the work of the messiah. If you want him to come, you observe the mitzvot (not that you're under any obligation to do so: the law was given to the Jews).
Do you believe the Messiah will be perfect or imperfect?
That question does not even make sense to a Jew. There is one God, and he is perfect. The messiah will be a man, and therefore human, limited, imperfect, just as Abraham, Moses, and Elijah were. If you believe that your messiah is "perfect" then you believe in 2 gods, which is OK, of course, but you have to understand that you have departed the camp of the monotheists.
If you think the Messiah is imperfect or simply a mythological fairy tale, then why even bother believing and why continue to call yourself a Jew?
The messiah may be a person, or he or she may be a historical movement or a moment in time. Who knows? When you literalize what was never meant to be literalized you open yourself up to all sorts of error.
For those who already believe the Messiah has come,
Wasn't he sort of a disappointment? I mean, the world still seems to be sort of mess, doesn't it?
... we naturally believe that Jesus was without sin and perfect in the sense of morality.
Perfect in the sense of morality? But perfect in no other sense? That's an interesting distinction. Do your co-religionists share it or only members of your particular sect or denomination? There are lots of people who are morally perfect, hence, there must be lots of messiahs I suppose. Your faith sounds closer to Buddhism than my understanding of Christianity. I thought that you thought that Jesus was God or something. If all that you believe is that he was a morally upright sort of guy, then I suppose we have more in common than I thought.
84 posted on 10/06/2006 10:27:01 AM PDT by Asclepius (protectionists would outsource our dignity and prosperity in return for illusory job security)
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