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Wages of Stagnation
www.townhall.com ^ | Tuesday, September 26, 2006 | By Bruce Bartlett

Posted on 09/26/2006 5:20:47 AM PDT by .cnI redruM

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To: oceanview
>>>>Hey, why don't you add NBA stars to that list


Most of them never earn a degree.
61 posted on 09/26/2006 12:39:38 PM PDT by .cnI redruM (Robert Heinlein's 5 grades of coffee: Java, Cafe, Jamocha, Joe, Carbon Remover)
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To: oceanview

Oh, that's right, you again. You're the guy who thinks we have no semiconductor industry in the the U.S. anymore. As for your bullsh++ NBA example, the last time you excreted it, I asked you to consider all the (American) basketball players playing in Europe and elsewhere overseas, as well as semi-professional ball here in the U.S. You fled.


62 posted on 09/26/2006 12:39:59 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

so are you telling me I should start taking lessons in dribbling?


63 posted on 09/26/2006 12:40:59 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: oceanview

According to you, only if you can play at the NBA level. Don't think of getting an engineering degree unless you're guaranteed a research slot at Dupont.


64 posted on 09/26/2006 12:42:42 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: El Cid

those dotcom fantasy jobs were blown out of the system by the end of 2001. the steady offshoring by large cap US tech companies has continued unabated since then.


65 posted on 09/26/2006 12:42:46 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: El Cid
That's also an interesting point. It raises the question of whether the average real wage is cyclical or linear. I tend to think it has a cyclical nature, like almost any other economic variable.

I tend to think, however, Bartlett is so crudely anti-Bush that his choice of years is driven by no other criterion than picking a year Clinton was in office.
66 posted on 09/26/2006 12:43:19 PM PDT by .cnI redruM (Robert Heinlein's 5 grades of coffee: Java, Cafe, Jamocha, Joe, Carbon Remover)
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To: .cnI redruM

Real wages are most definitely cyclical, with the trend-line pointing upward. Generally speaking, discussions about the real wage don't occur unless a Republican president is in office.


67 posted on 09/26/2006 12:45:22 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

When you have people with engineering degrees who can't make it to DuPont, that's one thing. But when they go to work at Lowes, something is very wrong. In fact, US tech is gradually becoming just like the NBA - its becoming a boutique profession, the "average" jobs are going offshore or are being staffed by H1Bs, so if you can't be a "star player", my advice is not to choose another field. Which is exactly what young people are doing. And as the CSM article points out, its not just tech, the imbalances between jobs being created and education levels, is a real phenomena.


68 posted on 09/26/2006 12:48:55 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: oceanview

should say "choose another field".


69 posted on 09/26/2006 12:52:13 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: oceanview

Wrong. Again, your CSM opinion-piece points out that our colleges are generating kids with degrees with no economic benefit. It says nothing of kids with degrees in marketable fields. In essence, you are pointing to some dolt with a gender studies degree and lamenting the sad state of engineering study. It won't wash here.


70 posted on 09/26/2006 12:54:30 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Fan of Fiat
Hehe. Let me guess.....all that bad news dominated the conversation at a BBQ with your family and a few close friends last Sunday and everyone decided to vote third-party, especially for Kinky since he's promised not to build any roads that could increase trade because, as we all know, increased trade is bad for everyone and everyone is also preparing for economic collapse by not spending any money and, generally, behaving like it's the worst economy since Hoover. Did I miss anything?
71 posted on 09/26/2006 1:24:11 PM PDT by Mase
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To: .cnI redruM

I think you misread my post. No where did I equate manufacturing with adding value.


72 posted on 09/26/2006 1:37:29 PM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: .cnI redruM
Bartlett is so crudely anti-Bush that his choice of years is driven by no other criterion than picking a year Clinton was in office

Bingo. I've always been a fan of Bartlett but I don't know what Bush did to turn him so rabidly against him.

The title of his new book and some of the reviews I've read, leads me to believe that his bias against Bush is motivated by vindictiveness and is affecting his balance and objectivity.

73 posted on 09/26/2006 1:41:03 PM PDT by Mase
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To: 1rudeboy

no, it points out a BLS labor stat that shows that the types of jobs being created (in many categories, not all of course, there are no absolutes here) - requiring little or no college. and which direction is the trend taking us? with offshoring, the answer to that question is very easy. so long as knowledge jobs can be offshored, our economy will increasingly generate service and government jobs, health care and education, etc. there is no stopping that trend.

its easy to blow off these young people as "dolts" - in many cases, they are people who can't find jobs in their field of training, and are thus working in unskilled positions, with a mountain of college debt behind them.

its not they they should have otherwise gotten degrees in "marketable" fields, the jobs don't exist in those field to accomodate everyone, so increasingly, college makes little sense for more and more young people.

so much for the knowledge economy.


74 posted on 09/26/2006 1:41:48 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: Mase
Did I miss anything?

BUY GOLD

75 posted on 09/26/2006 1:53:29 PM PDT by Fan of Fiat
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To: .cnI redruM

Illegals making lower wages (which drags down these averages) doesn't seem to bother Dems... but they can't resist any chance to try to rile up their base.


76 posted on 09/26/2006 2:30:01 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: oceanview
those dotcom fantasy jobs were blown out of the system by the end of 2001. the steady offshoring by large cap US tech companies has continued unabated since then.

My point was that the article's author was cherry picking the numbers by selecting 1999 as his wage reference. 2001 would've been fair -- after the dot-com implosion.

Outsourcing was going full-bore through the 90s, however the dotcom 'fantasy jobs' (I'll use your phrase - its accurate), covered up this fact. And when the 'fantasy jobs' were gone, people looked up and many of those past jobs that were once available in manufacturing or Hi-Tech, were overseas.
The dot-com crash brought down the entire stock market (harming good companies in the wake); the normal economic down cycle; WTC; all of this combined to extend the downturn, and depress wages/jobs for a several year period. So it isn't puzzling to me why people aren't upset that their wages haven't grown significantly since the peak of the dot-com era (unless they suffer from amnesia).

77 posted on 09/26/2006 2:38:17 PM PDT by El Cid
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To: oceanview

Can't disagree with one word of your post.


78 posted on 09/26/2006 2:40:21 PM PDT by lucysmom
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To: oceanview
. . . it points out a BLS labor stat that shows that the types of jobs being created (in many categories, not all of course, there are no absolutes here) - requiring little or no college.

Are you and I reading the same piece? Have you read it?

. . . the Bureau of Labor Statistics's 10 fastest growing occupations between 2004 and 2014, and you'll find that six of the 10 professions do not require a four-year degree, and four of these call for no academic degree at all. [emphasis added]

Since when does a prediction count as fact?
79 posted on 09/26/2006 2:41:58 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: oceanview
The experience you cite in Long Island may be getting more common over time, but I suspect it's still something of an anomaly caused by two simultaneous factors: 1) inflated housing costs, and 2) exorbitant property taxes.

Long Island is one of the few places on the planet where you'll find two dozen illegal immigrants living in a $600,000 home. The economic forces at work here are probably the same.

80 posted on 09/26/2006 2:43:30 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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