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Army's Top Officer Signals Pentagon Budget Revolt
LA Times ^ | September 24, 2006 | Peter Spiegel

Posted on 09/24/2006 8:42:41 PM PDT by jmc1969

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To: jmc1969

Cut all social programs by 1/2%

That should provide billions!


41 posted on 09/25/2006 4:34:30 AM PDT by airborne (Fecal matter is en route to fan! Contact is imminent!)
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To: balch3
To: Hoplite I believe the President and his appointed Defense Secretary. 14 posted on 09/24/2006 9:54:27 PM PDT by balch3

Well, you are wrong. I have a relative flying for the Air Force. Our planes are overworked and under-maintained. Duct tape and overlooked maintenance violations are keeping the birds in the air. I have another close relative in the Army in Iraq. Stupid decisions designed to protect officers' careers are endangering our troops.

Rumsfeld's Restraint is that you are only allowed to kill an Iraqi after he/she has first killed you.

Rumsfeld prevented the military from planning for the occupation of Iraq and prevented them from deploying as many soldiers as was needed. We've allowed this insurgency to grow by undermanning the occupation and coddleing the Iraqis.

42 posted on 09/25/2006 4:41:49 AM PDT by american_ranger
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To: jmc1969

Political Correctness and trying to fight the war on the cheap will be the death of us all.


43 posted on 09/25/2006 4:59:10 AM PDT by armymarinemom (My sons freed Iraqi and Afghan Honor Roll students.)
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To: El Gato
Agreed, but I still think the budget issue is getting mired in transformation issues.

I also note taht Rumsfeld is not slapping down Schoomaker, which leads me to believe (contrary to the MSM) the Rumsfeld does listen to histen subordinates.

He knows any plans for transformation will not outlast his secretaryship if the objective is not plain, understood and agreed upon within the services.

The main problem I see is money: the easiest thing to do politically is to do nothing and allow the forces to hollow out.

I am also worried about the Navy and the Marine Corps.

44 posted on 09/25/2006 7:01:46 AM PDT by pierrem15 (Charles Martel: past and future of France)
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To: Axhandle
Cut the crap. There is so much fraud, waste, and abuse in the military

You're 100% right, but all I can say there is "Good luck with that"

How about instead of whining about not enough money, we spend less time, money, and effort on erecting desert paradises at our FOBs in Iraq?

You want to see public support for the war drop faster than a falling North Korean rocket? Reducing the standard of living out there, which in some cases is literally palatial, would annihilate troop morale and, by extension, the morale of their families back home. The media would be on that like white on rice, every day of the week. Keeping those bases comfy is absolutely vital to maintaining public opinion back home.

Perhaps provide incentives for units to have a surplus at the end of the year that they could roll over into the next fiscal year, rather than dreaming up plans on how to spend every last dime?

If the military procurement and finance system wasn't short sighted, it'd be blind.

Cut out awards (reducing tons of manhours, paperwork, and associated costs) and substitute them with ideals like selfless service.

As Napoleon once said, "Give me enough ribbon to cover the tunics of my soldiers and I will conquer the world." Getting rid of the awards system a good idea in theory, but it'll never happen. Same with the FOBbit holes. Cutting out the awards system wouldn't work for most people, and that would have secondary political effects of a determental nature.

Use CSS units for CSS function OR contract it out. CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER. Otherwise, you get what we have today: the CSS unit spends its days playing basketball and the contractor is nowhere to be found.

I'm still wondering why we have things like cooks, clerks, and the like in uniform. They may do a lousy job, but since said lousy job is only going to be contracted out anyway, why bother keeping them on the payroll?

Put in place some kind of accountability for the tens of millions of dollars that we dump into purchases and contracts for Iraqi Army installations and equipment.

Again, good luck with that. We're just there to train and equip. Accountability is the responsibility of the host nation, and we don't do nation building. ;-)

Reduce the number of field grade officers, general officers, and sergeants major in theater by 50%.

In theater? How about 'in general'?

45 posted on 09/25/2006 7:21:44 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (As Ibn Warraq said, "There are moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.")
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To: Jim Noble

Attempts to occupy the places you mention would lead to disaster and a certain way to lose the war.


46 posted on 09/25/2006 8:19:12 AM PDT by quadrant
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To: leadpenny
I'm not certain that divisions are obsolete but the organization structures above divisions - corps and armies - are certainly obsolete. So to are many other HQ units, such as US Army, Europe.
47 posted on 09/25/2006 8:22:48 AM PDT by quadrant
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To: jmc1969

We are still spending less than 5% of GDP on defense. Schoomaker was recalled to active duty at least in part because several Generals were reluctant to take the job as Chief of Staff without more money or more troops. So far the administration seems reluctant to provide either, I would hope that we would show more seriousness about fighting the war than this.


48 posted on 09/25/2006 8:22:57 AM PDT by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal)
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To: leadpenny

That's fine leadpenny.

You can side with the NYT. You obviously value an unrestricted press in time of war, and at at that an unrestricted press that has shown it does not have the best interests of the USA or the military personnel in mind, AND MOST DEFINITELY CANNOT BE TRUSTED WITH ANY KIND OF CONFIDENTIAL MATERIAL.

So you, and whoever you have in your pocket can side with the NYT and go pound sand, Okay leadpenny?


49 posted on 09/25/2006 8:30:36 AM PDT by rlmorel (Islamofacism: It is all fun and games until someone puts an eye out. Or chops off a head.)
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To: american_ranger

I've heard similar things from friends and family still in the Navy and Air Force. Cannabalizing for spare parts, etc. People forget the HUGE cuts under Clinton, of manpower, weapons platforms, you-name-it. The military didn't recover from those cuts before WWIII hit us.

Yes, there's waste, fraud, and abuse in all government programs, and it needs to be cleaned up, but that's a separate issue. There's less waste and more value in military expenditures than social progams any day.

Fact of the matter is the military desperately needs more money NOW to fight this war, replace used equipment, etc. They've been partially doing this by imposing a "war tax" on all the services, a fixed percentage of funding that is transferred from other programs to the war. That's been going on for years, now, and the services are tapped out.

If the WOT is worth winning, it's worth funding. If they can spend millions to rebuild the Superdome, they can properly fund the military.

Good on the General. I hope he wins this battle.


50 posted on 09/25/2006 8:48:08 AM PDT by LadyNavyVet
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To: LadyNavyVet

I agree that military expenditures need to be increased, and I certainly would not mind if some social programs became much leaner...for example, eliminate the NEA and PBS.

Cannibalism is always an underlying symptom of more serious procurement and funding issues...a canary in the coal mine, so to speak. When I was in the USN in the Seventies (arguably the lowest point in military preparedness and capability since the mid-fifties) we were CONSTANTLY cannibalizing aircraft parked in the hangar bay. We always had one plane that might not fly for a month or two, and often we could get the "Hangar Queen" fixed up in time to fly off when the deployment ended. In one case, I remember a team of us had to stay behind in Norfolk for a week to rebuild a plane that had been craned off after we berthed. Screw Jimmy Carter and the Dems that were pulling the strings then, and Bless Ronald Reagan for bringing our military out of it.


51 posted on 09/25/2006 8:57:13 AM PDT by rlmorel (Islamofacism: It is all fun and games until someone puts an eye out. Or chops off a head.)
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To: quadrant
Attempts to occupy the places you mention would lead to disaster and a certain way to lose the war.

That's a very interesting way of putting it.

I can see how failed attepts at occupation would lose the war.

Other than conquest, occupation, and reconstruction of these enemy territories, exactly how do you think we can win?

52 posted on 09/25/2006 9:00:18 AM PDT by Jim Noble (You know something is happening here but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?)
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To: Jim Noble

My response was predicated on the political and economic consequences of such attempts.


53 posted on 09/25/2006 9:02:58 AM PDT by quadrant
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To: Jim Noble
After the Army shrinks,where is he going to get the forces to occupy Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Somalia?

the Army isn't shrinking and I'd be willing you bet you're just blowing smoke, e.g. there are NO plans to occupy any of those countries at this time.....
54 posted on 09/25/2006 9:04:03 AM PDT by MikefromOhio ("...America has confronted evil before, and we have defeated it...")
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To: quadrant
The other services made organizationals changes years ago. Why has the Army been so reluctant to change?

The Army was actually ahead of the 'official' change. When I joined the Army in '95, I joined what amounted to a separate infantry brigade (3rd Brigade Combat Team of 3rd ID). When I went into the Guard in '99, the unit *was* a separate infantry brigade (48th SIB).

There is far less resistance to change than you might imagine when it comes to combat formations. In fact, Army doctrine has been built for years around the idea of 'task organization,' meaning that various units can be cross-attached in any number of ways to support a given mission.

If you want to understand the "resistance to change," look not at the combat organization but in the career progression. The brigade idea cuts a lot of high ranking support officers out of a job. What on earth are they to do when there's no Division Support Command (DISCOM) or Corps Support Command (COSCOM) anymore?

55 posted on 09/25/2006 9:19:30 AM PDT by Terabitten (Deus Vult!)
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To: MikefromOhio

I think he means that if this thing goes really hot we may need a lot of warm bodies in a hurry and it would be really nice if we had some of them on hand. We may well have to occupy some of those coutries eventually, maybe not all and maybe not at once, but we will.

I've thought for some time that we should have a huge Military Police Training "college" because our mission these days seems to require a lot of that MOS.


56 posted on 09/25/2006 9:22:03 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Political Correctness is communist propaganda writ small.)
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To: jmc1969

2-star Jackman...that's the general in charge that department.


57 posted on 09/25/2006 9:23:18 AM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand; but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: Axhandle
How about we force units to only use funds for mission-essential things?

I've always said that you have to be an O5 or above to *truly* commit waste, fraud, and abuse.

Cut out awards (reducing tons of manhours, paperwork, and associated costs) and substitute them with ideals like selfless service.

That's an incredibly stupid idea.

Use CSS units for CSS function OR contract it out.

Yes, to a point. Where we would really save a sh*tload of money on that is stateside. Get rid of "Army Community Hospitals" and BS like that. Let the local hospitals handle it, with military doctors working at those same civilian hospitals.

58 posted on 09/25/2006 9:24:00 AM PDT by Terabitten (Deus Vult!)
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To: quadrant
My response was predicated on the political and economic consequences of such attempts.

You don't like my plan for victory. Fine. I'm just an idiot with a keyboard.

What's yours?

59 posted on 09/25/2006 9:37:26 AM PDT by Jim Noble (You know something is happening here but you don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones?)
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To: Terabitten
I agree the Army has too many superfluous billets and far too many officers.
Why does the Army continue to rotate officers through command and staff billets? Why is ticket punching the norm for Army officers? Why are officers relieved of command after their units return from overseas deployments? Why
does the Army maintain separate "branches" for combat specialties?
Until the Army begins to address these questions, it will continue to grind itself into ineffectiveness.
60 posted on 09/25/2006 12:30:00 PM PDT by quadrant
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