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Amaranth founder says market turned against hedge fund ~ RECEIVED SUBSTANTIAL REDEMPTION REQUESTS
Marketwatch ^ | Last Update: 2:57 PM ET Sep 22, 2006 | Alistair Barr

Posted on 09/22/2006 12:14:54 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Amaranth Advisors LLC Founder Nick Maounis told investors in a conference call on Friday how markets turned against the hedge fund in September, leaving it no choice but to sell its entire energy portfolio to other firms at a huge loss. Maounis said that "highly unusual market behavior," not just the usual price moves, virtually eliminated the firm's access to liquidity. "We did not expect that the market would move so aggressively against our positions," he explained. The fund lost $560 million on its natural gas trades on Sept. 14, he noted.

(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: amaranth; energy
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1 posted on 09/22/2006 12:14:55 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: NormsRevenge; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp; BurbankKarl

Well Now......?


2 posted on 09/22/2006 12:15:47 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
bulletin
HEDGE FUND AMARANTH HAS RECEIVED SUBSTANTIAL REDEMPTION REQUESTS

3 posted on 09/22/2006 12:16:38 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Sometimes you get the bear.....sometimes the bear gets you.


4 posted on 09/22/2006 12:17:05 PM PDT by Mack the knife
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To: Mack the knife
Good for the consumers:

Crude, natural-gas futures post hefty losses for the week

***************************************

November crude closed at a 10-month contract low of $60.55 a barrel Friday,


5 posted on 09/22/2006 12:20:02 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Mack the knife
Most days, you jest gits bear hair all over you.
6 posted on 09/22/2006 12:20:38 PM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
He seems to be implying that other market players got wind of the trades in his book and took the other side.

He's implying a conspiracy instead of admitting that he bet his entire firm on a single employee's aggressive trading of a handful of volatile commodity contracts.

Pathetic.

7 posted on 09/22/2006 12:24:00 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
This is how he earns his 8 figure salary?

"We did not expect that the market would move so aggressively against our positions,"

8 posted on 09/22/2006 12:24:10 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA
The speculators just couldn't keep it going:

Crude, natural-gas futures post hefty losses for the week ~ ... low of $60.55 a barrel Friday,

9 posted on 09/22/2006 12:31:39 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
What is your definition of "speculators"? If you had time would you read and comment on this discussion?

Good Chunk Of Americans Believe Gas Prices Are Being Manipulated By Bush

Thanks.
10 posted on 09/22/2006 12:37:12 PM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

$560 mil is the tip of the iceberg. Word on the street is that losses will be about $6 BILLION when all is said and done.

CinNJ


11 posted on 09/22/2006 12:39:57 PM PDT by chris_in_nj (Never Forget, Never Forgive)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I don't buy that myth.


12 posted on 09/22/2006 12:40:34 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Futures are a good way to go broke, I almost broke a promise to myself, to never speculate in futures, short oil, but sanity caught up with me. I am lousy at timing anything.
13 posted on 09/22/2006 12:44:22 PM PDT by Little Bill (A 37%'r, a Red Spot on a Blue State, rats are evil.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I don't get the supposed conspiracy here about the redemptions. Would you trust a company that lost $6 billion in a few weeks with the rest of your investment? Why wouldn't you be headed for the exits?

The lack of liquidity was likely due to the size and stupidity of Amaranth's natural gas bets during a declining market. This isn't the first time someone has taken too large of a position in a market with other people's money and ultimately lost. It's happened before and will happen again.
14 posted on 09/22/2006 12:45:07 PM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
It's never a good sign when you have to hire a law firm to handle communications with your investors.

How does the law firm know it's going to get paid? If I'm an investor, presumably with big bucks, I hire my own attorney to slap an injunction on this tactic, and prevent the hiring of this firm.

15 posted on 09/22/2006 12:47:07 PM PDT by Night Hides Not (Closing in on 3000 posts, of which maybe 50 were worthwhile!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
We did not expect that the market would move so aggressively against our positions,"

That happens when you are aggressively out on a limb.....Sometimes it gets sawed off.

16 posted on 09/22/2006 12:48:26 PM PDT by Cold Heat (I just analyze it, I did not create the mess...so go pound sand:-))
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To: chris_in_nj

Yeah, that's what I understand....6B!


17 posted on 09/22/2006 12:50:11 PM PDT by Cold Heat (I just analyze it, I did not create the mess...so go pound sand:-))
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

You let a trade run rapid, and take insane risks... you were all fine as long as he was winning, when the tide turned and it bit.. you let him double down instead of just eating the loss and moving on.... and that destroyed you.

Its easy to make big bucks taking big risks... but its more luck than skill.... cause its just as easy to lose all your gains and more.


18 posted on 09/22/2006 12:50:40 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: conservative in nyc
It's happened before and will happen again.

yup!

My first reaction was "where the hell are the regulators?", but the problem does not appear to be systematic, and these guys just made a risky bet and lost.

19 posted on 09/22/2006 12:52:36 PM PDT by Cold Heat (I just analyze it, I did not create the mess...so go pound sand:-))
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To: dynoman
I think I would really go with this as a GOOD Comment:

*************************

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"

While Mencken's words still ring sadly true, he never contemplated a public education system under the autocratic thumb of overpaid union automatons who literally bore their students into submission, and blithely indifferent "administrators" whose sole function is to develop Zero Tolerance policies to insulate themselves from any sort of decision-making responsibility.

What the average high schooler learns about economics is not worth the cost of the solitary Post-It Note you could write it on... with room to spare.

Bat One on September 19, 2006 at 12:55 PM

*****************************************

The above is from the commentary section of your link!


20 posted on 09/22/2006 12:56:32 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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