Democrats' Free-Trade Follies

Investor's Business Daily via Yahoo! News ^ | 18. September 2006 | unattributed

[mysterio]

Incredible that you defend sweatshops by arguing that we used to have them here. We also used to have slavery and child brides. It doesn't mean these practices are desirable.

[1rudeboy]

This is getting comic. Now you're contending that a good portion of the world is too poor to purchase goods we don't produce anyway?

[1rudeboy]

No one is defending sweatshops. Some of us simply understand that economic freedom and prosperity is the greatest threat to their existence. You appear to be arguing that the problem should be attacked by firing on your own troops.

[sten]

BMW, Volkswagon, Toyota and Ford/Lincoln/Mercury all have factories in Mexico shipping into the US with no tariffs (thanks again, NAFTA).

Exactly how does NAFTA help Americans? Don't say we get more Mexican sales... because the average mexican doesn't make enough to buy American goods at American prices (ie: not much profit). It's a one-sided deal, good only for the owners of the company while screwing the employees out of jobs. (more employment musical chairs.. which impacts the workforce and drives down wages in other sectors)

[1rudeboy]

Good grief. You want me to post the import data for Mexico? Or will you say I'm cherry-picking my figures?

[MinnesotaLibertarian]

I agree. These are the people that only vote Republican because they think the government should push their religious agenda on people (another mistake the Republicans have been making). I think we'd be better off cutting loose the protectionist, social conservative wing (I call it the Buchanan/Tancredo wing) of the Republican party. We'd be more true to real conservatism and we'd more than make up for the loss with more libertarians and independents coming back to the GOP. I've stayed in the party because I'm optimistic, but if we can't be rid of these people soon, I'm out for good.

[sten]

cute chart... could you make it smaller?

BTW, did you notice your chart is showing that since about 1998 (can't tell its so small) the salaries of American families have been declining. Are they still better then 1970? Sure. But the increase in the 90s was due to the internet boom and the start of wholesale offshoring of American produced goods. The downturn is the effect of offshoring and NAFTA starting to take its toll.

[Mase]

Incredible that you defend sweatshops by arguing that we used to have them here

Not defending them. I just understand how economies develop. You want to prevent jobs in poor countries from being created. How do you defend that? Why would you forbid poor countries from taking advantage of their poverty when poverty is their main asset?

You have no understanding or answers, just outrage.

[sten]

another cute chart. Did 1996-2000 just not happen? I hate the toons as much as the next rational individual, but I still acknowledge the years...

[1rudeboy]

Oh, what the heck:

Exports to our NAFTA partners increased 10 percent in 2005, and have increased 134 percent since 1993, the year before NAFTA’s implementation. Approximately 37 percent of aggregate U.S. goods exports went to NAFTA countries in 2005 (over $330 billion), up from nearly 33 percent in 1993 ($142 billion).

U.S. exports to Canada, the largest U.S. export market, accounting for 23 percent of U.S. exports, increased by 12 percent in 2005. Growth areas of U.S. exports to Canada include industrial supplies (up 18 percent) capital goods, except autos (up 15 percent) agricultural products (up 13 percent) and consumer goods (up 12 percent). Overall, U.S. exports to Canada are up by 85 percent since 1994.

U.S. exports to Mexico, the second largest country export market, accounting for 13 percent of U.S. exports, increased by 8 percent in 2005. U.S. exports were up 16 percent for industrial supplies and materials and 10 percent for agricultural goods. Since 1994, U.S. exports to Mexico have increased nearly 136 percent.

Office of the U.S. Trade Representative

Please note that the above figures are for goods exports, and do not include services.

[1rudeboy]

The chart concerns wage/benefit growth in the years immediately following a recession.

[sten]

What I fail to understand is why some of these folks don't vote Dem. I mean, they all but admit that the Repubs don't represent them, and their views are expressed most clearly by the Dems. I thought we vote our our pocketbooks . . . if they do not vote Dem, are they really admitting their economic concerns have no merit?

Don't mistake lack of choice for support or agreement.

The VAST majority of Americans, not just republicans, are AGAINST illegals and offshoring. Any candidate that put America first, and party second, would win the vote... but that's not how the system works. You don't even get on the ticket without getting into bed with at least one of the parties.

[Protagoras]

yea, those nasty tariffs of the 80s that congress put on the import car industry only saved Michigan.

That comment is lacking a laugh track. Michigan has sunk into the mud up to it's neck when compared to anything, particularly it's neighbors.

Liberals love command economies and high tariffs and trade wars.

[sten]

If what we're doing is so bad then you should easily be able to show us where it's hurting our economy. You can't because it isn't. You may be struggling for any number of reasons but the country as a whole is doing very well -- your class warfare rhetoric notwithstanding.

*pssst* did you actually look at your own chart from post 26? Or do you just have the inability to see it?

**imported emperors clothes alert**

[Protagoras]

Willie,,is that you? Did you change your screenanme?

[1rudeboy]

You could probably argue that the only thing keeping Michigan alive at the moment is NAFTA.

[sten]

I simply looked up the trade stats for the Philippines because you mentioned the Philippines. I am cherry-picking nothing. I am directly challenging your assertion that the Phillipines (and by extension, Filipinos) is too poor to buy stuff from us. It is precisely that sort of attitude that drives companies into bankruptcy, and I pray for your employees if you have any.

Spoken like an egotisical American using his own world view when talking about the world. People in the Philippines, with 40% living below poverty, will not be buying large American goods. I need to put the qualifier 'large' due to the weasel words you will start pushing. By large I mean items that are not manufactured in Asian already (essentially local goods bought cheaper then here) and items that are not simplistic items like baggies or plastic bottles.

As for your assertion that the folks in Philippines do indeed have the ability to buy goods (which you have carefully not said, but you are arguing for it), exactly how much of the $4000/yr ($350/mon) salary do you think they would have to spend on such goods?

[sten]

Incredible that you defend sweatshops by arguing that we used to have them here.

It's ok mysterio,FR has its own board trolls that like to keep the spin going in their direction. Some of these people may actually work in various congressional offices.

[Mase]

cute chart... could you make it smaller?

Your allergy to facts is also cute.

Better?

BTW, did you notice your chart is showing that since about 1998 (can't tell its so small) the salaries of American families have been declining

That's not at all what the chart is saying. It clearly shows that real income for the middle class has been increasing for more than 30 years.

The downturn is the effect of offshoring and NAFTA starting to take its toll.

More Dem talking points based on ignorance.

Real hourly wages have risen since 1994 for all workers. For all workers, hourly wages rose 38.4% while the Consumer Price Index (CPI) just rose 27.1%. For manufacturing jobs, hourly wages also rose more than prices, with a 34.1% gain. Let's do a pre-NAFTA comparison. From 1984-1994, hourly wages for all workers rose 33.5%, while the CPI rose 42.2%, indicating a fall in real wages. The same happened for manufacturing jobs with hourly wages rising only 33%, well under the rise in prices. So it looks like workers did better in the years after NAFTA went into effect than before.

Source

In 1994 there were 123 million Americans working. By August of 2006, that number had increased to more than 144 million. In the years since NAFTA passed we've created more than 21 million new jobs along with rising real wages. We've also dramatically increased our exports to Mexico and Canada.

Source

Now, what were you whining about again?

[1rudeboy]

fact: A good number of Filipinos are poor.
fact: The Philippines represents an export market of nearly $50 billion.

Some of these people may actually work in various congressional offices.

It's funny to see that charge trot out on these threads. I think it was Jonah Goldberg who observed that some people are bound so emotionally to their beliefs that they feel any question of them must come from someone with ulterior motives.