Race and Conservatism

New English Review ^ | September 2006 | John Derbyshire

[goldstategop]

I looked up Stormfront and the crude racism is not at all to my liking. On the other hand, Vdare discusses illegal immigration and the problem of a common nationhood. Reasonable people can differ on whether their answers to the issue would unify our country or divide it still further apart.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

[TAdams8591]

"Its not just racial, its cultural."

Did you read sentence four in reply #15. I never said or mentioned the word race, however, I did use the word culture.

And thanks, I wrote several papers on this subject many years ago in college, read many articles and some books on the topic and have given the issue a deep amount of thought the past 25 years.

[goldstategop]

Yes, you did. But obviously people from differently racial groups today have different tastes in food, culture and politics. Maybe its insurmountable or may be its a sign that in a free society, we all don't want to do things the same way; groups as well as individuals deserve to be different. The only flaw I can see with that logic is whites are not allowed to celebrate their own group. There was that rumpus in Connecticut with a Republican Party campus group's white scholarship offer. If diversity is OK for minority groups, why can't the majority celebrate who it is also? Here is where some conservatives are rebelling against our dogma of group equality, if only because of the hypocrisy and cynicism surrounding it.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

[TAdams8591]

"Conservatives and Liberals do not inhabit the same country."

And when did you first realize that? That's been true for many years. We have our own books and celebrities, and increasingly our own TV shows and music, all fostered by differences in moral, religious, and political views and a differing life and world perspective.

[LWalk18]

We should aim to treat people in character as equals but treat them differently according to their innate cognitive and physical abilities. That concept offends the very notion of the DZGD dogma, which says every one has the same degree of intelligence, moral upbringing and physical strength. Two examples should illustrate of how absurd is our outlook on group differences. Few blacks are academic superstars but they are athletic wunderkinds.

But these assumptions can hurt the lives of those who don't fall under their group assigned traits, though not in equal ways. A white person who is stupid but an athletic genius will suffer less by being passed over for the All-Star based on stereotypes than a smart black person who is a poor athlete but is put in the slow class.

Only a few hundred people (almost all men) make their livelihood on their superior athletic ability but millions make their money off of intelligence. From this, it is obvious why few black people see being seen as a dummy but a good athlete as being a positive stereotype.

[goldstategop]

In the old days, people voted pocketbook issues. Now the wars have shifted to culture. The Republicans still lost despite a humming economy and a war that on the face of it, has bred few American casualties compared to earlier conflicts in American history.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

[TAdams8591]

No, I didn't write the word race in reply #15. But I did mention the word culture.

There have always been cultural and other differences among various groups of people. But there was a common culture that we all shared. This is no longer true, and it's not in the best interest of our country.

[goldstategop]

You make a good point about group stereotypes. As individuals, people have free will to do some different. But in many cases, doing what your group does offers reassurance, support and safety in numbers. This is true of people who adhere to a particular lifestyle, like Hasidic Jews. Very few of them stop being strictly observant and drop out for the reason that a sense of belonging is a greater benefit than anything the world at large can offer them. So some people take pride in their group not following majority dictates in society precisely because they value their own uniqueness and have no desire to assimilate. They like being who they are.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

[LWalk18]

There have always been cultural and other differences among various groups of people. But there was a common culture that we all shared. This is no longer true, and it's not in the best interest of our country.

Did we have a common culture, or just fewer media sources? There wasn't hundreds of cable channels or millions of websites that could cater to your particular culture or worldview. It seems that everyone watched, listened, and read the same thing because they had to, not so much because of a shared culture.

[goldstategop]

Agreed. Narrowcasting changed all that and people with shared beliefs can now associate with whom they want. If that makes Free Republic akin to Vdare, I don't apologize for it in that sense. Conservatives have a right to exclude those from their interests those who don't share their philosophy just as our country as a right to exclude those from its membership who break our laws and reject the notion of being an American.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

[GSlob]

"But obviously people from differently racial groups today have different tastes in food, culture and politics. Maybe it's insurmountable.... "
One can assume [simplistically] the subdivision of whatever is man-made in the life of a society into 3 areas:
1. Economics;
2.Culture [national cuisine and architecture, song and dance, arts, pottery shards - the stuff of archaeologists and ethnographers]; and
3. Sociology [how people relate to one another and to their groups in socially important situations- weltanschauung, sociological aspects of religion and "national character", predominant sociopsychological type etc. This is what could be called civilization proper. This is an elaboration of Huntington's thesis [he used the whole religion as a marker]. This elaboration is justified - his Western Civ was not split into Protestant civs and the Catholic civ [and would have to include Israel, too]. The marxists give primacy to economics; huntingtonians- to sociology.
In this framework the differences you mention, as long as they are what could be called "cultural"; are nothing to worry about. But as soon as they cross into the civilizational differences, they become insurmountable and fatal.

[goldstategop]

Good point. Our differences with liberals are hopefully cultural rather than civilizational. If its the latter, the prospects of America making through the Dark Age ahead don't look very bright. That's why this discussion is so illuminating.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

[GSlob]

The differences between the libertarians and redistributionists are civilizational in nature.

[goldstategop]

Agreed. We found no common ground whatsoever with the Soviets just as we have no common ground with Al Qaeda Islamofascists. The differences in philosophy and worldview are irreconcilable.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

[TAdams8591]

Whether it was because they had to (and I don't believe that was the way people saw it then), or not, the fact remains there was a common culture.

[HarmlessLovableFuzzball]

Apparently even acknowledging group differences amounts to racism. After all, didn't the liberals teach us that EVERY group would be identical to EVERY other group, if not for social conditioning?

[TAdams8591]

There have always been cultural differences, but there was a main common culture that most people in our country shared. This is no longer true. And if the gap among various groups continues to widen, it will prove fatal.

[goldstategop]

The flaw I see in what Peter Brimelow and his group of American nationalists write on Vdare is how do we construct an American nation? We can't do it by race. If we do it by culture, how do we get every one in the same boat? If we do not all agree upon what being an American means, how do we go to a common nationhood? I subscribe to the school there should be an American nationalism but today we can't even get people to agree to the principles in the Declaration Of Independence, which for me, remains the essence of true American nationalism and the sui generis of our American nation.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

[goldstategop]

But groups are NOT the same. That's obvious to any one who follows IQ tests. The differences between groups have been well documented enough to dispell the myth all groups are the same in intellectual ability and powress.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." -Manuel II Paleologus

[TAdams8591]

"Apparently even acknowledging group differences amounts to racism"

Very true. People have more similarities than differences, but to deny that there are differences among groups, is to deny reality.