“Freedom and Justice in Islam”

Imprimis/Hillsdale College ^ | September | Bernard Lewis

[teacherwoes]

>>>Whereas on our side, we are weak and undecided and irresolute


Only if you're a liberal.

[Nasty McPhilthy]

The problem is liberalism. Of that, there can be no doubt. However, his statement does have a certain ring of truth about it.

[kjo]

Yeah, he's essentially got it right. It's gonna come down as to whether the Defeatocrats get the White House in two years. If they do we are in for more attacks here and a very long war.

Oh eight is the most important election in many years.

[Paloma_55]

Freedom and Justice in Islam

is like

Peace and Tranquility in Hell

[The_Reader_David]

Yes, bin Laden made the usual miscalculation in dealing with the English speaking world: he assumed our usual behavior, preference for the 'good life', commerce, and, in politics, endless debate, was representative of our core. Get in the way of that, especially if you hurt our loved ones in the process, and English speaking folk get cussed and mean.

Hitler and Tojo make the same mistake.

If the demonRATs win in '08, the jihadis will certainly attack again, but it will be the last time, and the last demonRAT President for many decades. I'm not sure who the Republican candidate in '12 would be under those circumstances, but I'd bet (s)he'll have a 'Kill 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out' attitude toward the war.

[sageb1]

bookmark for later

[Apercu]

IF and it is a big IF- the Democrats win one of the 2 (most probably the House this Nov.), we will see UBL & Co. / wannabees sensing weakness (real or perceived) try to attack the West because the first thing the party of treason will do is attempt to impeach Bush.

[Silicon Cowboy]

Interesting read. It agrees with other things that I have read on this topic.

It also points the finger not to, as the libs like to say "our imperialist foreign policies," but to the history of the region.

First the surrender-monk...er...the French, then the Nazis, then the communists.. yea, I can see how all that serves to distort their world view.

[The_Reader_David]

Yeah, but back in the days when the Sultan (who was also the Caliph) had to consult before doing anything, they weren't that great either: kidnapping Christian boys to raise as Muslim to fill their Janissary corps, and Christian girls to fill harems for the Sultan and his 'nobles, making Christians and Jews wear distinctive clothing so they could avoid them on the street, preventing the construction or even repair of churches and synagogues, occasional anti-Christian pogroms like the one that killed St. Joseph of Damascus, and the Armenian genocide (and that after the Armenians were the most loyal of the non-Muslim 'millets' to the Ottoman state), suppressing their own economic development by forbidding printing-presses, and the like.

[Excellence]

I get an on-dead-tree copy of Imprimus every month. It's always a great read. Hillsdale's ship cruises are like nothing else offered. They even have a retirement center.

[Silicon Cowboy]

When you sit and think about it... were they ever really great at all?

I don't think so.

[The_Reader_David]

Well, they had their brief, shining moment, when their Caliph was so pragmatic and un-Islamic, that he had St. John of Damascus, who wrote the first thoroughgoing Christian critique of Islam, as his Grand Vizier, and they managed to synthesize Greek and Hindu science and mathematics (adding essentially nothing of their own).

[Tolik]

Bernard Lewis:

...There are, as I've tried to point out, elements in Islamic society which could well be conducive to democracy. And there are encouraging signs at the present moment--what happened in Iraq, for example, with millions of Iraqis willing to stand in line to vote, knowing that they were risking their lives, is a quite extraordinary achievement. It shows great courage, great resolution. Don't be misled by what you read in the media about Iraq. The situation is certainly not good, but there are redeeming features in it. The battle isn't over. It's still very difficult. There are still many major problems to overcome. There is a bitter anti-Western feeling which derives partly and increasingly from our support for what they see as tyrannies ruling over them. It's interesting that pro-American feeling is strongest in countries with anti-American governments. I've been told repeatedly by Iranians that there is no country in the world where pro-American feeling is stronger, deeper and more widespread than Iran. I've heard this from so many different Iranians--including some still living in Iran--that I believe it. When the American planes were flying over Afghanistan, the story was that many Iranians put signs on their roofs in English reading, "This way, please."

So there is a good deal of pro-Western and even specifically pro-American feeling. But the anti-American feeling is strongest in those countries that are ruled by what we are pleased to call "friendly governments." And it is those, of course, that are the most tyrannical and the most resented by their own people. The outlook at the moment is, I would say, very mixed. I think that the cause of developing free institutions--along their lines, not ours--is possible. One can see signs of its beginning in some countries. At the same time, the forces working against it are very powerful and well entrenched. And one of the greatest dangers is that on their side, they are firm and convinced and resolute. Whereas on our side, we are weak and undecided and irresolute. And in such a combat, it is not difficult to see which side will prevail.

I think that the effort is difficult and the outcome uncertain, but I think the effort must be made. Either we bring them freedom, or they destroy us.

Nailed It!

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[Tolik]

Wahhabism was dealt with fairly easily in its early years, but it acquired a new importance in the mid-1920s when two things happened: The local tribal chiefs of the House of Saud—who had been converted since the 18th century to the Wahhabi version of Islam—conquered the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. This was of immense importance, giving them huge prestige and influence in the whole Islamic world. It also gave them control of the pilgrimage, which brings millions of Muslims from the Islamic world together to the same place at the same time every year.

The other important thing that happened—also in the mid-20s—was the discovery of oil. With that, this extremist sect found itself not only in possession of Mecca and Medina, but also of wealth beyond the dreams of avarice. As a result, what would otherwise have been a lunatic fringe in a marginal country became a major force in the world of Islam. And it has continued as a major force to the present day, operating through the Saudi government and through a whole series of non-governmental organizations. What is worse, its influence spreads far beyond the region. When Muslims living in Chicago or Los Angeles or Birmingham or Hamburg want to give their children some grounding in their faith and culture—a very natural, very normal thing—they turn to the traditional resources for such purposes: evening classes, weekend schools, holiday camps and the like. The problem is that these are now overwhelmingly funded and therefore controlled by the Wahhabis, and the version of Islam that they teach is the Wahhabi version, which has thus become a major force in Muslim immigrant communities.

[the invisib1e hand]

“Freedom and Justice in Islam”

there are way too many words in this thread to possibly be inspired by a topic for which almost nothing can be said beyond, "oxymoron."

[Rummyfan]

BFLR.

[Traianus]

THIS WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN!! Don't ALLOW IT IN ANY WAY!!!

[kalee]

Either we bring them freedom, or they destroy us.


We receive Imprimus in the mail. This one will definitely be a keeper.

[PeterFinn]

Wow. Thank you for posting this.