Biologist says evolution, religion can coexist

AtomicBuffaloWings...I have been very busy the last few days, and so have not had time to read and study in any depth your last post to me, and probably wont get to it for a few more days...

However, I wish to point out to you another area, where Arnold Murray, disagrees with the mainstream religions...this concerns the fate of Judas...I heard Arnold Murray say on several occasions, that Judas did not commit suicide, by hanging himself from a tree, which is what I believe most traditional religions teach...gosh, look at any movie, and they always make a point of showing Judas, swinging from the tree...Arnold Murray on the other hand, states that Judas was murdered by others, slit open, and perhaps they may have hung him from a tree afterwards, but that in no way did Judas commit suicide...but Murray did not give any Scriptural references for this...

And so I had to make my own particular search regarding this, and here is what I came up with...comes from the first book of Acts...

16] Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
[17] For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
[18] Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

These verses from Acts, Chapt 1 and the relevant verses, makes no mention at all of Judas hanging himself...rather it does seem to imply that he was slit open, and his inner organs spilled out...Murder?...I dont know, but its quite an interesting set of verses...I dont know if Murray has any other evidence to support his assertion that Judas was in fact, murdered, rather than committing suicide, and so I will continue to look further...

But its quite interesting, and a completely different take from what traditional religions teach about Judas and his fate....and best of all, it comes straight from the Scriptures...

If you have time, please give this subject attention as well...I know this is asking a lot, but I am truly very interested in this...thanks...

Yes, yes, I know the verses you quote in your post #248, and sadly, those verses have been used to either try to bolster up someones personal interpretation of Scriptures, or tear down someones personal interpretation of Scriptures..the verses are true, but they have been used ad infinitum, to justify any and all teachings, and therefore dont mean much in this sense...

You cannot use those verses to make anyone believe that your personal interpretation of any Biblical Scripture is the truth....perhaps it is you, who have been misled...Perhaps those who disagree with your personal interpretations have the truth and you do not...

So, quoting the verse you did, really means nothing in the context of this conversation...I assume what you are trying to say, is that your interpretation is the correct one, and that anyone who disagrees with you, is having their itching ears hear only what they want to hear..turn that around..perhaps you are the one with the itching ears...

See what I mean?....who is to say, who is the one with the itching ears? who are the ones turning away from truth and turning aside to myths?...Is it you?...perhaps...Is it me?...again, perhaps...

People can certainly have disagreements about what the Bible actually does mean to convey, because lets face it, neither you, nor I, nor anyone else on earth today, can say with any true honesty, that they speak for God...we all try to read the Bible, and try to undersand what it is saying, what it means, what is the truth...and invariably all different people will come to different conclusions...

Which of course, explains the huge number of Christian denominations, and hundreds and hundreds of independent Christians churches, all with their own particular beliefs and interpretations from the Biblical Scriptures..being as they all will disagree with each other, some on minor points, but many on major points, none of them can have the absolute truth, of what the Biblical Scriptures really mean...

Perhaps we all have the 'itching ears', as it seems to be human nature, that we all want to believe that our personal interpretion of Biblical Scriptures is the only truth, and that all others are of course, wrong, when they disagree with us...but since not one of us is perfect, we are all quite able to and often do, make mistakes...

Therefore, discussing these things openly should be of value to everyone...

The little foreword in the Bible here on my desk, before 2Thess actually starts says that the people he wrote 1Thess to were thinking "the day of Christ is at hand" immediately at hand, so he sits them straight.

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

With verses 1-3 Paul makes it clear that the day of Christ (2nd Coming) and Christians gathering together unto Him (what most folks say is the rapture) are one and the same day.

We won't be gathered to Christ until there is a huge apostasy first. That's the falling away. The man of sin/son of perdition is generally agreed to be the antichrist. He comes onto the scene but is only revealed in a sense if you know he is the antichrist. Many people, especially Christians, will worship him thinking him to be the true Christ. The antichrist has to come onto the scene first before we are gathered unto Christ.

Verses 6-11..the withholder that will be taken out of the way just before the antichrist comes, is probably Michael or it could be God Himself keeping the antichrist bound. Either way God gives the say-so of when the antichrist comes and is revealed. Most people say it's Christians who are out of the way when they are "raptured", others believe it's the Holy Spirit.Verse 9 just means antichrist has come to do the work Satan started way back when; to be worshipped and take God's place. Notice God Himself will send delusion to those that desperately want to believe a lie. (the rapture IMO)

Rev 12:7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

The Book of Revelations is about things yet to come. So the little war in verse 7 has yet to happen although it also eludes back to the war when Lucifer fell and became known as Satan. In verse 9 he is not called Lucifer but Satan. In verse 10, before he is booted out he's been up there badmouthing bretheren to God. I don't think by bretheren it means Adam and Eve.

I believe Satan himself to be antichrist. antichrist is just another name like Devil or Satan or Dragon. I'm not quite sure when Satan was bound up in heaven, but it sounds like he is up there. I'll post more verses below, that to me describe Satan/the antichrist being booted to earth.

Tomorrow I'll try to show where and why I think Satan is antichrist and also answer your questions, Elsie to the best of my ability. Most Christians believe demons are here on earth today. Their spirits and intellect yes. Able to influence and sometimes manipulate the physical world. (I love the show A Haunting, on Discovery) But the Devil and demons have to have physical forms too. I'm not sure what they're made of but Gen 6 backs this up.

And remember the Bible describes Satan as a pretty handsome dude, not some monster with horns and a tail and fangs and pitchfork. Demons are often depicted in shows and culture as being shadowy and evil looking. They can make themselves look however they want though. Even eyewitnesses of hauntings describe ghosts and demons as being shadowy or scary looking. Maybe because in those cases they are trying to scare people, not fool them. How can a completely intangible incorporeal demons/devils lust after and impregnate women?

1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

Genesis 6:2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

It's generally accepted that the 'sons of God' is talking about rogue angels. At least that is what I've always heard. Angelic beings are also referred to as morning stars and the sons of God in Job 38:7. Look it up if you don't believe me. The angelic/demonic humanwoman offspring that were giants are sometimes called nephilim. Just remembered that word and when I looked it up in Strong's it said see GIANTS.

Below a few more verses that describe Satan getting his arse tossed out of heaven in the future.

Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

8And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

9And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

10And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

A lot of symbolism in Rev. The fifth angel sounds (the 5th trump, and if you remember from 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 Christ doesn't return until the 7th and final trump has been blown.

The star falling to earth is Satan. The locusts are simply demons/rogue angels that look like ordinary men. All those other wild descriptions are just to say how fierce and powerful they are.

Apperently the bottomless pit is somewhere in a part of heaven. In a spiritual realm anyway. NOT inside the earth.

Look up Abbadon and Apollyon in a concordance. They're numbers 3 and 623 in the Greek section. Abbadon means a destroying angel. Appollyon is defined as Satan or a destroyer.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mathhew 24:23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Same thing as in Mark 13:14 Tomorrow I'll post a a passage or two from Daniel.

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