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To: Iris7

May I reiterate that although I find this analysis unpleasant I also find it convincing? There is no point in attempting to fight a war of defense on the basis of wishful thinking. We may as well simply surrender since we will get a better deal from the enemy now than we will later.

Remember Sir Winston Churchill?

"I have nothing to offer except blood, toil, tears, and sweat."

We must keep in mind our responsibilities and choices. Remember this one?

"Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old."

Or this?

"...never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never-in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy."

And perhaps most important,

"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

And this paraphrase (Remember that Churchill was half British and half American):

Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that if Western Civilization lasts for a thousand more years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'


14 posted on 09/09/2006 2:04:24 PM PDT by Iris7 (Dare to be pigheaded! Stubborn! "Tolerance" is not a virtue!)
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To: Iris7
May I reiterate that although I find this analysis unpleasant I also find it convincing?

Your intellectual limitations are not my problem.

Reading your defense of this defeatist clap-trap, I see the basic problem with your viewpoint. You are a romantic who disdains the technologies that make "sacrifice" on the home front and "heroics" on the battlefield increasingly irrelevant:

Miniver Cheevy
Edwin Arlington Robinson

Miniver Cheevy, child of scorn,
Grew lean while he assailed the seasons
He wept that he was ever born,
And he had reasons.

Miniver loved the days of old
When swords were bright and steeds were prancing;
The vision of a warrior bold
Would send him dancing.

Miniver sighed for what was not,
And dreamed, and rested from his labors;
He dreamed of Thebes and Camelot,
And Priam's neighbors.

Miniver mourned the ripe renown
That made so many a name so fragrant;
He mourned Romance, now on the town,
And Art, a vagrant.

Miniver loved the Medici,
Albeit he had never seen one;
He would have sinned incessantly
Could he have been one.

Miniver cursed the commonplace
And eyed a khaki suit with loathing:
He missed the medieval grace
Of iron clothing.

Miniver scorned the gold he sought,
But sore annoyed was he without it;
Miniver thought, and thought, and thought,
And thought about it.

Miniver Cheevy, born too late,
Scratched his head and kept on thinking;
Miniver coughed, and called it fate,
And kept on drinking.


32 posted on 09/09/2006 2:24:15 PM PDT by steve-b (The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.)
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To: Iris7
Churchill was a damn genius. He wrote this while he was in his 20's:

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

—Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).

51 posted on 09/09/2006 3:19:24 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (You! Shake your junk!)
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To: Iris7
7) The seventh reason lies in the moral poverty of the West’s, and especially America’s, own value system. Doctrines of market freedom, free choice and competition — or “freedom ’n’ liberty” — are no match for the ethics of Islam and Sharia, like them or not.

This writer does not know America.

Our values are not ONLY market values; they are the values of our Judeo-Christian beliefs, as much a contribution to American exceptionalism as they were in Toqueville's day.

That is what will give us the belief and fortitude to defeat Islam.

92 posted on 09/09/2006 7:45:16 PM PDT by happygrl
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To: Iris7

"May I reiterate that although I find this analysis unpleasant I also find it convincing?

I do not find it convincing at all.

What I would have found convincing is if the author had mentioned cultural and demographics reasons. He did not, therefore I must consider the author a detractor, a saboteur and an enemy of the Western World.


153 posted on 09/10/2006 8:48:15 PM PDT by stultorum
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