Posted on 09/07/2006 11:24:37 AM PDT by Xth Legion
Chomsky: We should examine carefully what's being established here in the prologue. For one, the point is clearly made that the "master ring," the so-called "one ring to rule them all," is actually a rather elaborate justification for preemptive war on Mordor.
Zinn: I think that's correct. Tolkien makes no attempt to hide the fact that rings are wielded by every other ethnic enclave in Middle Earth. The Dwarves have seven rings, the Elves have three. The race of Man has nine rings, for God's sake. There are at least 19 rings floating around out there in Middle Earth, and yet Sauron's ring is supposedly so terrible that no one can be allowed to wield it. Why?
(Excerpt) Read more at mcsweeneys.net ...
This is not how the Elves view this whole thing. After all, we made those other 19 rings. We didn't make his. That seems the kind of difference human liberals can't seem to get their heads around.
Must be why the ringwraiths were all ex-humans, you think?
I've read this before. It's a LOL riot!
Hey that man is weak argument is perfect for ringwraiths. However, man is also a creature that possess the infinite ability to do great good.
Well, there was a lot of discussion revolving around that concept actually in the blogosphere when the films were being made. Most of us who were more or less purist about the books rather resented Aragorn going all weak in the knees because his 29th removed grandfather kept the ring. Something in the blood, the screenwriters wanted us to think.
Huh.
We knew (and the liberals debating us rejected) that there are strong humans and there are weak ones (as in any other sentient race). We found it amusing the films were being made because we also knew that they were going to point up how weak-kneed liberals were in reality, given they couldn't even hold up their end in a fiction. So, that's my point: the ringwraiths were liberal humans, not conservatives. The conservatives aligned with the Elves and Dwarves and fought back the hellish Lord of the Rings.
Just like in real life.
Chimpsky is an idiot.
I agree with you there. Those conservatives recognize growing evil and KNOW that they must do something about it. Libs like Dethenor refuse Gandalf and call him "war mongerer" and go blind to the evil on the doorstep. Eventually they go mad with fright, kill themsleves and let the heroes take care of the bad guys.
I am often grimly amused these days. One aspect that always raises my eyebrow is when I visit some of the Tolkien-related sites and see who has chosen what affiliation, it is so vividly clear what's what, but nobody is ever supposed to notice (all in fun, don't you know). The worst folk about the war, any kind of duty, reasonable analysis or even getting a job really do tend to choose either Mordor or Isengard as their affiliation.
That said, some really good folk cosciously chose those affiliations, just to make the point that there would be no messing around. Disagree and get the business end of their logic (not their spears).
Yes, I too am surpised sometimes. I love the books and the movies. I am a fan of both Tolkien & CS Lewis. And there is a great difference between fun and games and the real world.
I guess I still have that strong belief like most folks here -- that you can always tell the good guys, it's pretty easy if you have a moral compass set by a belief in a higher authority.
I completely agree and of course that is what makes the source of our conversation (the Zinn/Chomsky parody) so very funny. They would not be amused, I wouldn't expect, but I think this is basically what they teach about the real world.
Or, their moral compass points exactly south when moral rectitude is due north.
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