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To: Vaquero

>> Pope fails to address 'intelligent design'

> and that is the appropriate response.....he knows that the lord works in mysterious ways...why not through evolution.

Yes, we were taught evolution in my Catholic school science class.

I learned from my 12 years of Catholic school that science is the way we understand the genius workings of God, and that the incurious acceptance of the non-explanation of "just because..." is a sin... of rejecting God's glorious gift of intellect.


14 posted on 09/04/2006 10:18:30 AM PDT by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender!)
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To: VictoryGal
Very well said. Evolution and Christianity are not exclusive and you are right - deliberately refusing to use one's God given intellect really is a sin. By refusing to think, you have decided to reject one of God's gifts and you've made the decision to reject the special status God has given man amongst His creation.

I'm not an IDer or a Creationist, but I do know where science begins and religion ends. Evolution is quite likely manifestation of God's Creation. But that is a philosophical position. Not a scientific one. I really like the deep position your Catholic school took on the approach of science.

18 posted on 09/04/2006 10:47:11 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: VictoryGal
I learned from my 12 years of Catholic school that science is the way we understand the genius workings of God,

exactly...and you have 2 years on me....

.........I went through the 10th grade then we moved to the burbs where the schools were better and I went 11-12 in regular public HS, but the parochial education was very good...

19 posted on 09/04/2006 10:50:19 AM PDT by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: VictoryGal
I learned from my 12 years of Catholic school that science is the way we understand the genius workings of God, and that the incurious acceptance of the non-explanation of "just because..." is a sin... of rejecting God's glorious gift of intellect.

Very well put, and bears repeating.

Anglican communion (my own denomination, if that matters) takes the same view. I imagine (but cannot demonstrate) that many if not most Christians would agree.

The ones who don't agree make enough fuss to sound like a mahority, but I doubt that.

26 posted on 09/04/2006 11:48:19 AM PDT by ToryHeartland
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To: PatrickHenry; VictoryGal; Vaquero; doc30; ToryHeartland; NYer
Patrick, I'm just going to follow up what I posted to you in that other thread yesterday and say just a little more about why the Catholic Church would violate its own doctrine if it were to make a statement in support of Creationism and/or Intelligent Design which, contrary to the speculative reports suggesting that the Pope might be moving in this direction, was never in the cards. And it really does reflect what VictoryGal said when she remembered she learned in Catholic School that science is the way we understand the genius workings of God, something doc30 and Vaquero have applauded her for posting. I want to add my own voice in support of VictoryGal here, because I specifically remember learning in my Catechism classes -- I went to public schools -- that I should never fear what science might produce because science was of the material world and was therefore limited in what it has to offer mankind and that it can never bring humanity to an understanding of God.

Though we have seen no official statement coming out of this seminar -- it seems that its participants will post papers on their own -- it should have been obvious from the beginning to anyone who has read Pope John Paul II's "Truth Cannot Contradict Truth" address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in November, 1996 that the focus of the Catholic Church when dealing with the Theory of Evolution would be to delineate the separation between distinct epistemological lines of inquiry as they relate to the Theory of Evolution; and especially with the impossibility of establishing a transition from Materialism to Theology based upon observations of material phenomena. In the Catholic view, it is only through Theology, the highest form of Metaphysical philosophy, that we can even begin to approach an understanding of God. As a scientific pursuit, the Theory of Evolution is entirely within Materialistic inquiry, which does not offer anything in the way of approaching God. This is where Intelligent Design runs directly contrary to Catholic Doctrine because it holds, and quite falsely in my opinion, that there is scientific evidence which proves the physical intervention of a designer, who is generally considered to be God. If Intelligent Design were to be supported by the Catholic Church it would represent a departure from its doctrinal assertion that evidence for the existence of God cannot be inferred from observation of specific phenomena because that would represent a transition from and linkage between materialistic inquiry and Theology. Pope John Paul II was very clear on this point when he stated the sciences of observation describe and measure the multiple manifestations of life with increasing precision and correlate them with the time line. The moment of transition to the spiritual cannot be the object of this kind of observation ("Truth Cannot Contradict Truth," part 6). So the possibility that Intelligent Design could have been endorsed by the Catholic Church was a dead issue even before the inquiry began.

But going back to VictoryGal's statement that science is the way we understand the genius workings of God, it is possible for Roman Catholics to look at the wondrous and systemic harmony in nature as evidence of a Divine Causality which is removed from any direct intervention in the workings of the natural order, and includes within it the contingent materialistic processes upon which the Theory of Evolution relies for its scientific justification. I'm going to quote the Vatican web site document Patrick was kind enough to link me to yesterday to illustrate this point, excerpted from paragraph 69:

. . . The current scientific debate about the mechanisms at work in evolution requires theological comment insofar as it sometimes implies a misunderstanding of the nature of divine causality. . . . it is important to note that, according to the Catholic understanding of divine causality, true contingency in the created order is not incompatible with a purposeful divine providence. Divine causality and created causality radically differ in kind and not only in degree. Thus, even the outcome of a truly contingent natural process can nonetheless fall within God’s providential plan for creation. . . .

This is why most Roman Catholics who have been schooled in the religious traditions of the Church do not fear the debate over the Theory of Evolution, Abiogenesis, and the Biblical story of creation. We still see the wondrous hand of Divine Causality at work even as scientific evidence supporting evolution and abiogenesis is advanced because there is no conflict between a truly contingent natural process and God's divine plan.
29 posted on 09/04/2006 12:22:41 PM PDT by StJacques (Liberty is always unfinished business)
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To: VictoryGal

I agree completely with the others on this thread, who have seen what you have posted as being completely sensible, and true...Evolution and Christianity do not need to be at odds with each other...


38 posted on 09/04/2006 12:56:22 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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