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"We're talking about a dozen cells. We're arguing over whether they are, in fact, legally-protected "human beings.""

Not currently protected, but they should be so protected, because they WILL be human. That's the whole point. Once the process is initiated, the biochemical result is inevitable--a fully functional human being. The "just a dozen cells" argument is bullshit (according to science).

That is most certainly NOT correct, Warthog. Very few implanted IVF embryos ever result in a baby. I think the current number is less than 10%, which is why doctors tend to implant so many of them in the hopes that just one will result in a live birth. Once the fertilization process is initiated, there is still only the potential (not the inevitable) that the blastosphere will become a human, even if the parents do everything possible to try to bring that blastosphere to full term.

I wonder if this is where the misunderstanding arises. Does knowing that very few IVFs work and that in nature, less than half of fertilized eggs result in a live birth change your view that a blastosphere must inevitably become a human?

jas3

p.s. There is no need to use profanities.

"That is most certainly NOT correct, Warthog. Very few implanted IVF embryos ever result in a baby. I think the current number is less than 10%, which is why doctors tend to implant so many of them in the hopes that just one will result in a live birth. Once the fertilization process is initiated, there is still only the potential (not the inevitable) that the blastosphere will become a human, even if the parents do everything possible to try to bring that blastosphere to full term."

I should have correctly said "if not interfered with". A "natural" failure of the fetus is not the question, it is whether the ARTIFICIAL intervention by humans is immoral.

"I wonder if this is where the misunderstanding arises. Does knowing that very few IVFs work and that in nature, less than half of fertilized eggs result in a live birth change your view that a blastosphere must inevitably become a human?

If it lives it'll be human. It won't be a dog, nor a horse, nor anything else. And no, it doesn't change my position in the slightest.