Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
Posted on 09/02/2006 9:11:47 PM PDT by beaversmom
Why not this time? And why not ten years? Some Muslims courts would punish these thieves by cutting off their hands. Would that be OK with you? Wouldn't that do an even better job of enforcing your "respect for property rights"? Just what level of punishment would you consider to be excessive?
A respect for property rights is the most basic of civilized behaviors.
So, to you, even this inconsequential lapse in such respect -- theft of worthless discarded fruit and vegetables from a dumpster beside a closed, dilapidated roadside stand -- merits six months in jail. Somehow I don't think that you and I define "civilized" quite the same way.
I sure hope you aren't a judge.
The article does not say that they broke the lock on the dumpster. It says that the garbage area was locked, and that they jumped the fence, so presumably the fence had a locked door.
Still, this new information, that the thieves jumped a fence, makes their sentence seem more reasonable.
True.
And they had to break something to enter the locked area in which the dumpster or equivalent was housed.
It's a distinction without a substantive difference, at least legally.
"Still, this new information, that the thieves jumped a fence, makes their sentence seem more reasonable."
Considering their offense, they got a very good deal, better than they would have gotten from me.
yep
Do you consider it civilized to break into someone else's business at night?
Do you consider it civilized to not safeguard private property rights by rule of law?
And more time than Denise Rich's husband - old unforgettable what's his name who was pardoned by Clinton.
Marc Rich.
Interesting. Until reading this, I figured they'd just reached into a garbage can sitting alongside the sidewalk. Going over a fence is enough for me to say they blew it bigtime -- they knew they were breaking the law. BTW, I read it as they climbed a fence that had a lock on the gate, not that they busted a lock. Nonetheless, I'm in agreement that they obviously knew they were doing the wrong thing.
Anyway, the store own doesn't just think the sentences were harsh, he said he wanted nothing to do with the case against the guys, which probably means he didn't testify against them. That to me says that it really was all about the cops deciding to come down hard on a couple of hippies and try to teach them all a lesson.
If they're still not admitting they broke the law, and aren't expressing remorse at this point, they're idiots. In fact, I'd bet that part of the harsh sentence is that they acted like idiots in the courtroom too.
Heh, thanks. I'm not much of a hippie these days, though.
I'm an engineer and system admin at a high-tech firm, got a house and barn on land that I own outright, an NRA card in my pocket, and a big beautiful Old Glory that hangs on the front porch. The only remnants of my hippie days are the pony-tail and a couple of old tie-dye tshirts.
But I do appreciate the thought. ;-)
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
Even if they were hippies, so what? 6 months for dumpster-diving for soem past-its-prime fruits and vegetables? For GARBAGE? GMAB
Seems like a good analysis.
He was just doing the rebellious rich kid 'finding yourself' stage.
here's what they have to say from jail: We weren't trying to be inconspicuous. We didn't have any intention of committing a crime or doing anything wrong," Charle said. "We had just come in town, and we were prepared to buy groceries from a store, but everything was closed." Charle said he admits stepping over a rope onto Sweet Pea property and taking the food from the trash wasn't the best idea, but that he doesn't think spending six months in jail is justifiable. "I feel like we've been treated very unfairly and unjustly," he said. "Everyone we've talked to thinks we've gone through far more than we deserve."
Siller said, "No one in their right mind would lock someone up for six months for stealing $15 worth of produce that was in a garbage can."
Authorities said they took five cucumbers, four or five apricots, two bundles of asparagus spears and a handful of cherries from a garbage can at Sweet Pea Produce.
No argument that it was a crime; the punishment and prosecution is embarrassingly out of measure. The court gave itself a punch in the nose. Every burglar, robber, and druggie brought before them in the future...every 17 year-old who laid hands on his mom....well.....suffice to say, the proceedings and sentencings will be , possibly, 'interesting', when and if the prosecution or defense refers to the precedent.
Let them eat cake.
Well, like several posters alluded to, there's more to the story than just this isolated arrest. If I had to guess, I would say that the store in question routinely was having trouble with people in the particular group (Rainbow hippies or whatever) digging through their dumpster. Now maybe they were flinging garbage out of the dumpster to get to the good stuff. Maybe they were smoking pot. Maybe they were using obscenities as they talked among themselves. Maybe they were wearing old raggedy clothes. Whatever.
The point is that it probably didn't do much to enhance the image of the store in the minds of the public to see a bunch of raggedy looking people digging through their dumpsters and hauling away garbage to eat. It probably also scared away customers and potential customers. Personalize it for a moment. It upsets me when dogs and raccoons go through my garbage because it makes a huge mess that i have to clean up. Would you feel comfortable if a bunch of people routinely dug through your garbage looking for food?
Jonathon Heib, co-owner of the produce stand, has posted a comment on the local media website, Steamboat Pilot. Here is what he has to say, in his own words:
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Thank you for all your comments concerning this sad situation. I'm speaking for myself, Jonathon Hieb and on the behalf of Katherine Zambrana,owners of Sweet Pea Produce.
Sorry it has taken so long to reply, as we were working at our store and doing our local farmers market today.
Sweet Pea does not agree with the offer made to these young men, by DA St. James.
I personally spoke with St. James concerning this matter a month ago. I told St. James that I was concerned with what he had offered these men, and before I could even explain my position St James rudely interrupted me and specifically told me he wasn't going to have these young men and the rainbow people come into our nice town and take it over. And he added, that he was going to make an example out of them. I was so furious I soon ended the conversation, in fear I would say something that I would later regret.
Now I'm going to say what I should have said to St. James that day.
In my opinion DA St James purposely put these young men in a situation were they had to choose jail time instead of excepting a felony that would have ill effects on them for the rest of their lives. These young men are clearly not criminals and are ambitious in their endeavors as social workers and as teachers, a felony on thier record would surely crush these dreams.Basically, St. James made them choose between the lesser of two evils.This matter could have been handled with an apology, an at most a small amount of community service.Instead, St. James has made Steamboat Springs look like a place that is absent of compassion and most of all common sense.I think it's time Mr. St. James questioned his ability to serve the people of routt co.
I will be glad to talk to anyone concerning this matter but please no more threatening phone calls to Sweet Pea, as some of my employees are truly scared. Please call me personnally 970 846.1907
Sincerely, Jonathon Hieb
P.S. We do recycle our overipe produce, we give it to local pig farmers. And thanks for the compost idea.
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He posted in the comments section, below the article body:
http://media.steamboatpilot.com/drudge/food.html?local_news
If these people were creating other problems, which I have no doubt they were, then they should be prosecuted for those acts, not sifting through food discarded in the trash. If they were making a mess, then charge them with vandalism. If they were smoking pot, charge them with possession and/or public intoxication. If they were making a big scene and cursing loudly, then charge them with disorderly conduct. Wearing raggedy clothing isn't a crime anywhere, as far as I know.
No, I wouldn't want somebody routinely going through my garbage, but these people weren't there permanently - just a few days, right? I don't think they scared customers off - the dumpsters and garbage cans aren't usually in front of a store where customers enter. They're generally behind the store in the vicinity of the loading dock. If they were at the front of the store hassling customers, charge them with loitering and disorderly.
The cops and the store management played right into the hippies' hands by charging them with stealing discarded food from a garbage can.
HORRORS! Those monsters! We can't allow that, can we? /sarc
Yeah, I've been saying for years that prosecutors are just trial lawyers with guns.
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