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To: Peisistratus

Ho-hum:

"Oh, BTW, you are arguing *possession*, not *use*. The two are different things."

Possession predicates use. One does not encumber oneself with objects for which they have no utility. If you do, see a doctor. Just what use do you intend to put them to? Certainly, personal defense and sport are legitimate reasons to own a firearm (and these uses don't rquire things such as bayonet lugs or full-auto capability, do they?), or do you believe it is a good idea to just let anyone own and stockpile weapons just because "they want to"?

""The fact is that the very laws you regard as an infringement of your rights were constituted, debated and passed by democratically-elected legislatures."

They are still illegal."

Ah, so now laws enacted by constitutional means (whether at the state or federal level) are illegal? In that case, I choose to invalidate those Amendments to the constitution and all laws I personally find suspect (for example, I should have the right to walk up to you on the street and pummel you with a baseball bat because, well, the lasw regarding asault and battery were illegally passed, by your logic). Simply amazing! I'll bet you screamed like a stuck pig when the mayor of San Francisco abrogated those duly-enacted laws when he decided, all on his own, that he had the right and authority to marry gay couples, and about his disregard for the people's voice. Apparently, you have no issue with doing so of your own volition. Again, you keep proving my points about fascism for me.

"Why? It wasn't before when there was less regulation. Freedom isn't safe."

No, freedom is not a guarentee and it does require an engaged and active population to keep it that way, however, the conditions of the past bear no resemblance to the conditions of the present, in many aspects. As they say on Wall Street, "past performance is no guarentee of future returns." Perhaps in the past we had a more responsible, more civic-minded, or more genteel society, but we'll never know (besides, they had other things to shoot at them rather than each other; food, Indians, et. al.). I'm sure the government didn't keep crime/firearms records and statistics in 1789, or 1879, to the same extent that we do now, so we'll never really know if it was really any more peaceful then than it is now. My money says no, since human nature never changes. We'd like to believe differently, though.

"I'm not aware of a specific accredited field called "Western Civilization" (not history and not literature, but what - a survey degree?) nor do I take an MA as being indicative of anything. When you have at least an MS in a real field, we'll talk."

Western Civilization is the study of Western (defined as Western European, derived from and conditioned by the civilizations of Ancient Greece, Rome, the great European Empires, etc, and their offshoots, like the United States) history, culture, languages, arts and sciences, philosophy, religion, and politics. In short, it is the study of the traditions and institions which form the bedrock foundation of modern American and European politics, society and culture. As such, it is CERTAINLY a real field, and has been for several centuries.


238 posted on 09/04/2006 1:51:13 AM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 235 | View Replies ]


To: Wombat101
"Possession predicates use. "

Of course it doesn't. Otherwise, every woman would be a prostitute.

"Certainly, personal defense and sport are legitimate reasons to own a firearm (and these uses don't rquire things such as bayonet lugs or full-auto capability, do they?), or do you believe it is a good idea to just let anyone own and stockpile weapons just because "they want to"?"

The only legitimate reason that ought to matter is that I want them. Nothing more is due you. In fact, "full-auto" is legal and I dare you to find any 7/11 that was ever robbed at bayonet point... Statist.

"Ah, so now laws enacted by constitutional means (whether at the state or federal level) are illegal?"

If they violate said Constitution, you bet your sweet bippy.

"Again, you keep proving my points about fascism for me."

Says the fascist.

"Western Civilization is the study of Western (defined as Western European, derived from and conditioned by the civilizations of Ancient Greece, Rome, the great European Empires, etc, and their offshoots, like the United States) history, culture, languages, arts and sciences, philosophy, religion, and politics"

Just as I thought. A survey degree.

". As such, it is CERTAINLY a real field, and has been for several centuries."

Nope. History would be. Literature would be. "Western Civilization", likely including the deconstruction of same, is a recent invention as a specific field of study. Of course, I've got a real degree in a real field that is a tad bit more rigorous than any MA in a made-up one, since you've brought your "field" into this as some evidence of your standing to argue the point. So, with your MA in Western Civ, what restaurant do you work in? Now, you see, THAT is how one uses condescension.

BTW, as to your "regulation = less crime" nonsense, that has been debunked by John Lott quite effectively. You accuse the "fringe right" of being Nazis in this thread. The Nazis agreed with YOU on the issue of gun control.
246 posted on 09/04/2006 2:59:11 AM PDT by Peisistratus (Islam delende est)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 238 | View Replies ]

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