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To: cusack7080

Open question to the forum: we have been discussing whether a forced conversion is "valid" in both Islam and Judeo-Christianity. My question is, if one refuses to convert and dies a martyr, is there any "special" dispensation? Let's say one is a sinner and has not been to confession for a long time previous . . . .


2 posted on 09/02/2006 12:31:37 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and say what should have been done. But no one can predict what the mind will do when you know you'll be be-headed if you do not cooperate in this situation.

I can't begin to judge these two men for what they did under the circumstance... If they have issues, seeing a priest about it would be my suggestion.

32 posted on 09/02/2006 2:56:00 PM PDT by sit-rep ( http://trulineint.com/latestposts.asp)
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To: 1rudeboy

I shall answer your questions as best I can on the basis of my understanding of Orthodox Christian tradition:

First, a conversion *to* Christianity under duress is essentially infeasible: conversion requires a long period of study (the catechumenate), and judgement by a priest or bishop that one is prepared to accept the Faith in full understanding.

Conversion *from* Christianity, apostacy, is a grevious sin even under duress. St. Cyprian's "On the Lapsed" dealt with problems presented by repentent apostates, whose apostacy took place under threat of death by torture during the Roman pagan persecutions of the Church, who wished to return to the Church, and the treatment of 'the lapse' became the standard for the Sacrament of Penance (though in the East the sacrament was strongly influenced in its form by monastic spiritual direction).

And yes, the grace of martrydom for Christ is sufficient to deal with all sins--indeed martyrs who were not baptized are described as undergoing 'the baptism of blood.' But understand, that the sinful (possibly including you and me--we've not been put to the test) are likely to fear for their material lives, and not be able to accept the grace of martyrdom.


35 posted on 09/02/2006 6:53:03 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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