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To: Velveeta

They established the Arabic was translated accurately. But it doesn't totally clarify the question as the number is insanely low. You might come up with that number if you count only non-Iraqis as they numerically make up something like 5% of the insurgency. But even then it is probably too low.

Most of the suiciders are jihadis from abroad, not local insurgents. They might be 5% of the total, but they are most of the "martyrs". How many jihadis died in Fallujah in 2004? How many in Ramadi? All the engagements in Anbar up and down the Euphrates and along the Syrian Border? And that is just the battles.

What about all the car bombs? How many have gone off since 2003? Each one equals at least one dead jihadi. As we speak, the attack rate is exceeding one attack on American forces every 15 minutes. It usually ends badly for the jihadis. Al Qaeda sustains itself not by surviving these engagements, but by replenishing lost fighters.

If one assumes that for every American killed we have killed 10 jihadis (and that is modest) then there should be close to 28,000 dead jihadis (not counting the rest of the coalition). If one doesn't count Iraqi jihadis, the number becomes more believeable. (say 24,000 dead Iraqi jihadis and 4,000 dead foreign jihadis). But again, the non-Iraqi jihadis account for most of the "suicidal" attacks (whether car bombs or head-on engagements with American forces). So IMHO,the number is still too low.

Maybe the reason he states this is because their situation is like a mirror image of those on our side who were fond of saying the "coalition of the willing" was illegitimate because 90% of the troops were/are American. That tended to demean the deaths of the Brits, Poles, Italians, etc

Al Masri, being an Egyptian head of al Qaeda in Iraq who succeeds a Jordanian/Palestinian (Zarqawi), both non-Iraqis, may just be reminding the 95% of the insurgents who are Iraqi that though the "foreigners" (non-Iraqi jihadis) may only be 5% of the total and are in leadership positions, they are suffering far more than 5% of the casualties.

I'll accept that explanation. But any reporter that says the insurgency has only suffered 4,000 casualties in total since 2003 needs to take remedial math.

It is maybe 4,000 non-Iraqis out of 25-50,000 total jihadis killed. (But that still seems far too small a number given the type of missions non-Iraqi insurgents tend to execute.)

I wouldn't exclude the possibility that there is another purpose to the number since there is still good reason to believe it is inaccurate no matter how you slice it.


1,771 posted on 09/28/2006 9:29:48 PM PDT by callmejoe
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To: callmejoe

I figured he must be calculating non-Iraqi suicide killers.

Your post triggered another '4000' count message and I found it easily by plugging in '4000' into google groups. Don't know if it relates at all - but here it is:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.islam/browse_thread/thread/9d08827586d954f0/9e3e0d9beb341902?lnk=st&q=4000&rnum=2&hl=en#9e3e0d9beb341902


1,793 posted on 09/29/2006 7:27:31 AM PDT by Velveeta
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To: callmejoe

Just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write an excellent, well thought out response to me yesterday.
:-)


1,796 posted on 09/29/2006 8:08:12 AM PDT by hegemony
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