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To: Alexander Rubin

Do you believe there can be patriotic Jewish Russians? ==

I think not. If one is jewish then it cann't be russian in same time. Jewish means a lot. Religion the first which brings ideology and alligance.
I beleive that true jews are those who live in Israel. Those who live in Russia and call themselves jews are really conformists.

Everything applies to Russians too. The true Russian should live in Russia.

Of cause one may live temporary everywhere but temporary only.

Of cause there can be people who may change its national indentity and convert to Jew or to Russian.
Such people in Russia we call Russia of jewish origin for example or anyelse origin. So they are Russians but thier origin doesn't concern no one.
But again if one live and even born in Russia and want to be a Jew or else he should emigrate to Israel or to appopriate country.

I don't support the "multi-culturism" as the wrong idea. I think that each people should live in thier own country. Or ther will be inter-national clashes.


60 posted on 09/05/2006 1:48:45 AM PDT by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
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To: RusIvan

It's interesting that you subscribe to romantic nationalism. Though its dangers have been well-documented, I will concede it has its advantages as well, at least on the surface.

However, your assertion that patriotic Jewish Russians are an impossibiliity is both disturbing, dangerous and insulting. I do not say this to be rude to you, but to express my honest opinion.

First, the obvious point is that being a patriotic Jewish Russian is not only possible, but exists. Judaism is a religion; as such it is a sub-culture, not a meta-culture. We both agree that being Jewish means a lot to Jews; so does being a Christian mean a lot to Christian. But, if you assert that it is impossible to be a patriotic Jewish Russian, then you must, by extension, assert it is impossible to be a patriotic Protestant Russian, because Russia's religion is Eastern Orthodox. Or a patriotic Catholic Russian (not sure if such a thing exists, but I'm sure there are Catholic Russians somewhere ;p ). Or even a patriotic atheist Russian. These are all subcultures that mean a lot to their members; they do not subtract loyalty to the mother country, though, which I think is what concerns you.

I agree that if one's first loyalty is to Israel (or any other country), then one should move to Israel and become an Israeli, or whatever country your first loyalty is to. But it is entirely possible to be sympathetic and supportive of another state, or a foreign cause, without owing them your primary allegiance.

Asserting that one cannot be a patriot if one is religious is a ridiculous assumption. In fact, the two often go hand in hand. In America, many, even most, patriots I know are all religious, to one extent or the other, and proudly identify with one faith's denomination in particular. Just as I am sure that in Russia, there are many patriots who are religious; Eastern Orthodox, Protestants, and Jews.

One cannot convert to Russianism, as Russia is a country, not a faith. One could convert to the Eastern Orthodox Church. One could immigrate to Russia. And one could assimilate there; although, with attitudes like yours, it seems like that would be hard.


64 posted on 09/05/2006 8:04:32 AM PDT by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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