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Growers say fruit's ready, but workers are scarce
Seattle Times ^ | 8-30-06 | Joe Mullin

Posted on 08/30/2006 11:14:35 AM PDT by SJackson

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To: SJackson

Someone needs to teach this guy about supply and demand. When the demand outstrips the supply (of laborers), ya gotta raise the price (wage). Pay them more, they will come. And gee, I feel real bad about his predicament.


21 posted on 08/30/2006 11:34:03 AM PDT by Lekker 1 (("Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau" - I. Fisher, Yale Econ Prof, 1929))
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To: SJackson
I understand machinery is available for cherries, apples, etc, though with some limitations.

The limitations include: machinery damages the fruit, and the results are therefore great for juicing and processed food, which don't pay well; and not good for retail-type, which is where growers make their profits.

22 posted on 08/30/2006 11:34:26 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: SJackson
"We're doomed."

_______ Fault.

23 posted on 08/30/2006 11:36:32 AM PDT by #1CTYankee (That's right, I have no proof. So what of it??)
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To: garyhope
If they line up for Wal-Mart jobs, they can line up to pick fruit and vegetables. Maybe they can do the jobs that the Mexicans are stealing.

Ignorance is never pretty, and yours is downright ugly.

The Mexicans aren't "stealing" this work. Americans stopped doing the work in about 1971, when the Great Society programs began making it more lucrative to go on welfare, than to do agricultural labor. It's still that way. Why do really hard work, when you don't have to?

My own observation comes from the fact that, prior to that tim, the schools would always have an influx of white kids in the fall who left after the picking was done. They were the kids of migratory laborers who followed the crops around. After 1971, they no longer showed up ... and not too long after that, the Mexicans started showing up instead.

24 posted on 08/30/2006 11:39:19 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: SJackson
The growers also speculate that many migrants may be moving into higher-paying sectors like construction.

Ding! We have a winner. This is where 'doing jobs others won't do' argument starts to come apart. Ambitious, hard working people, who can get access to better jobs (albeit illegally) will take those jobs next.
25 posted on 08/30/2006 11:40:11 AM PDT by Daus
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To: weegee

"for what he can afford to pay"

Uh, right. I see farmers everywhere begging. Nope.

Senator Larry Craig, another sound bite here for you!


26 posted on 08/30/2006 11:41:12 AM PDT by Shermy (A louder mime)
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To: r9etb

Interesting....how did the Mexicans know to magically start showing up?
susie


27 posted on 08/30/2006 11:41:51 AM PDT by brytlea (amnesty--an act of clemency by an authority by which pardon is granted esp. to a group of individual)
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To: garyhope
If they line up for Wal-Mart jobs, they can line up to pick fruit and vegetables.

Low wages aside, I think the main obstacle is transport; most of the kids lining up at Mall-Wart probably have no way to get out of the city. The smart farmers will bus them out, something the bait industry has been doing for a long time now. There are several operators here in Toronto that use vans to take worm pickers from the city to the worksites; there's no reason you couldn't do the same for farm labourers.

28 posted on 08/30/2006 11:42:35 AM PDT by Squawk 8888 (Pluto's been marginalized! Call the ACLU!)
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To: r9etb
FYI, after apples and pears are done, many of the illegals take their pay back down to Mexico and then come back again the next year.

Or move on to grapes and cherries and whatever else is ready to harvest. These crops depend on a large, mobile workforce for just a few weeks, the little towns can't support the workers all year round, but they do need them during harvest.

29 posted on 08/30/2006 11:43:51 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Head On. Apply directly to the forehead!)
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To: brytlea
Interesting....how did the Mexicans know to magically start showing up?

Word of mouth, most likely. The numbers of Mexicans around my hometown started out being pretty small, and gradually built up over the course of several years.

30 posted on 08/30/2006 11:43:54 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: brytlea
Interesting....how did the Mexicans know to magically start showing up?

They do the same harvests every year.

31 posted on 08/30/2006 11:45:14 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Head On. Apply directly to the forehead!)
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To: HairOfTheDog

Oh, phsaw. Let's not drag economic realities into this discussion. (A good point, btw. Then again, you actually being from Washington gives you an advantage over those who haven't seen the fruit industry close-up.)


32 posted on 08/30/2006 11:45:37 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
So the illegals make the long, difficult, voluntary trip to Washington just so the growers can abuse them?... Right. Look, SJ -- there's plenty wrong with illegal immigration. But the work is not "abusive." It's a voluntarily employment agreement, and to the illegals it's pretty good income. It's about as free-market a system as you're likely to see these days....FYI, after apples and pears are done, many of the illegals take their pay back down to Mexico and then come back again the next year.

The system is abusive. Illegals are paid less than legal workers, Americans or H2 holders. Working conditions may or may no meet legal standards. Social costs are paid by the taxpayer. Immigration and tax laws are violated as a matter of doing "business". In my view, the blame lies largely with the employers, and law (non) enforcement, from immigration to the IRS.

BTW, a legal, H2 visa holder can travel to the US, fare usually paid by the employer, work hard, earn money, take it back to Mexico, and come back next year. All in the light of day. And in fact they do, I've posted several articles on operations using H2 workers.

Personally, I'd like to see the program require some level of medical and liability insurance required as well.

33 posted on 08/30/2006 11:45:58 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: Lekker 1
Someone needs to teach this guy about supply and demand. When the demand outstrips the supply (of laborers), ya gotta raise the price (wage). Pay them more, they will come. And gee, I feel real bad about his predicament.

He knows all about it, that's why he's asking for greater supply, likely illegal.

34 posted on 08/30/2006 11:47:02 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: SJackson
The system is abusive. Illegals are paid less than legal workers, Americans or H2 holders.

How is it abusive? The illegals voluntarily accept the lower wages. They can leave if and when they want ... but they don't. The growers can't really afford to pay much more, and still stay in business.

35 posted on 08/30/2006 11:51:11 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb

~smiles~ I've spent enough time in Wenatchee and Yakima, went to school in Eastern Wa.

I also worked in Social Services, and have seen the social service agencies run around like mad trying to offer services to these 'poor' people, offering them day care and employment assistance they clearly didn't need. They spend a lot of money on programs and no one shows up, these people know where they're going, and really aren't asking for help.


36 posted on 08/30/2006 11:51:12 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Head On. Apply directly to the forehead!)
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To: rhombus
"eating a lot of foreign apples"

China produces about half of the world supply and are depressing prices worldwide.

37 posted on 08/30/2006 11:56:11 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: taxed2death; kjam22

"If you base your business on paying someone $3 an hour... you deserve to go under."

"when you have to pay more than $2 per hour for your help I guess....."

No offense, but neither of you know what you're talking about (on this issue).

I managed a 100+ acre apple orchard in Oroville, WA in the eighties and I can assure you that the workers make more than 2-3 bucks an hour. We were paying $10.80 per bin at that time. An average worker could easily pick a bin in less than an hour. The days were long and yes it was hard work, but we had guys that picked 12 bins a day, some even more. The workers got a free cabin and transportation to and from the orchards. They were making more than I was!!

Gotta have lunch, will be back soon.


38 posted on 08/30/2006 11:57:20 AM PDT by panaxanax
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To: r9etb
How is it abusive? The illegals voluntarily accept the lower wages. They can leave if and when they want ... but they don't. The growers can't really afford to pay much more, and still stay in business.

Read post 33 again. It operates outside the law. Illegals are harmed by lower wage levels by all accounts and in some cases substandard working conditions. Taxpayers are harmed by assuming costs which properly belong to employers. Society is harmed by tolerance of a 2nd economic construct, not bound by our legal system. It's no different than undeclared cash compensation. If growers can't pay more, which I doubt since there are growers who use legal immigrant labor, they may well go out of business.

39 posted on 08/30/2006 11:57:44 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: panaxanax

I think it's that "per bin" price that makes American and teenage workers wince, they want to be paid by the hour, not by the product! :~D

I picked blueberries as a kid, we got paid by the bucket.


40 posted on 08/30/2006 12:01:04 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Head On. Apply directly to the forehead!)
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