To: Perdogg
"The problem is that there will be NO stability in Iraq until Iran and Syria are delt with."
There never has been, and never will be, a "stable" Islamic country unless the stability was forced by a dictator at the point of a gun. Iraq was Sunni against Shiite against Kurd way before the US got there. Iran has been at war with itself throughout it's history. The same with Syria. The same can be said for every country Muslims conquered. The best we can hope for is that they fight each other to the extent we are less of a target. This is happening now in Iraq. The only other alternative is to eliminate all of them, but, with over a billion, no one is seriously proposing this.
There is no reason to believe that any Muslim country will renounce Islam to embrace democracy and individual freedom.
As these concepts are mutually exclusive, we are spinning are wheels attempting to force it upon violent, Islamic Countries. We can destroy much of the war making capabilities that can threaten us, but we can't make a people who believe in the Koran, which demands autocratic rule without individual liberty, freedom loving democrats.
To: Prokopton
"There is no reason to believe that any Muslim country will renounce Islam to embrace democracy and individual freedom."
You have already been proven wrong in your pessimism by the votes Iraqis already took. Yes, the forces of repression are strong, and islam as an ideology is hardly amenable to freedom, yet ... it is happening.
"we can't make a people who believe in the Koran, which demands autocratic rule without individual liberty, freedom loving democrats."
We are learning how many are Islamofascists and how many are patriots for democracy.
277,000 members in the Iraqi Army.
the insurgency? Maybe 5-10% of that.
the voters? 11 million.
I think you are right to criticize Islam wrt democratic compatibility, but are wrong not to recognize the tremendous progress in Iraq, and wrong not to consider that freedom and democracy has universal appeal.
democracy exists in Iraq and didnt before.
Iraq is already the most democratic Arab country in the middle east, and parts of Iraq (ie Kurdish areas) are enjoying both freedom and stability. As Iraq stands up their security forces, that will grow.
34 posted on
08/27/2006 10:26:25 PM PDT by
WOSG
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