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Pendleton case could hurt image of Marines - Pendleton 8
San Diego Union - Tribune ^
| 8/27/06
| Rick Rogers
Posted on 08/27/2006 10:21:48 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
The first hearing for Camp Pendleton service members charged with killing an Iraqi man could do more than suggest individual guilt or innocence. It also could tarnish the image of the Marine Corps and focus attention on an increasingly unpopular war.
Seven Marines and a Navy corpsman from the Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment are accused of killing an unarmed civilian on April 26 in Hamdaniya, then trying to cover it up.
The defendants have been confined in Camp Pendleton's brig since early May and could face the death penalty if convicted on charges such as kidnapping, assault and premeditated murder.
Two of them – Pfc. John J. Jodka Jr. and Cpl. Marshall L. Magincalda – are set to begin their Article 32 hearing Wednesday. The proceeding will help determine whether they should move on to courts-martial.
All the accused will undergo such hearings in the coming weeks. They will appear before an investigating officer assigned to weigh evidence presented by prosecutors and defense attorneys. The officer will then submit his findings to Lt. Gen. James Mattis, commander of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.
Mattis, a well-respected officer who led Camp Pendleton troops on key combat campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq during recent years, will decide whether any of the suspects should be court-martialed and which charges they would face.
After the Hamdaniya case wraps up, Camp Pendleton will probably host the hearings and trials of an even bigger case involving more of its service members. On Nov. 19, a dozen Marines allegedly killed up to 24 men, women and children in Haditha, Iraq. Investigators examining the Haditha incident said the suspects killed the Iraqis after a roadside bomb claimed one of their own.
The hearings and probable courts-martial of both cases will suggest problems within the Corps and the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq War, said retired Brig. Gen. Walter Donovan, a former senior legal adviser for the commandant of the Marine Corps.
Traditionally, the Marines have been known for their extraordinary ability to serve combat duty in the most challenging environments. That includes the insurgent-filled Al Anbar province, their main deployment area in Iraq.
True or not, the Hamdaniya and Haditha accusations have already tarnished the Corps' image of stoic professionalism, Donovan said.
“I don't think it is a great surprise. The troops are facing a foe that does not (wear) a uniform, one who employs children and who darts in and out of alleys,” he added. “The Marines face extraordinary uncertainties.”
The impending court proceedings will probably prompt more Americans to question why the United States ever invaded Iraq about 3½ years ago, said retired Marine Lt. Col. Gary Solis, a Vietnam veteran, former military judge and the Corps' chief of oral history from 2001 to 2004.
They also might highlight “problems in command responsibility,” said Solis, who grew up in San Diego, earned a bachelor's degree at San Diego State University and teaches law at West Point and Georgetown University. “I see it as leadership and training gone wrong.”
It seems to be a no-win situation for the Marine brass, he said.
Solis described the likely scenarios: “If (the defendants) are all found guilty, then the Marine Corps looks bad. If they are all found not guilty, the Marine Corps still looks bad because it looks like it let them go. If some are found guilty and others are not, then the question is: How could that have happened if they were all charged with the same crimes?”
It's disturbing to note the large number of service members – especially officers and noncommissioned officers – implicated in the Hamdaniya and Haditha incidents, said retired Rear Adm. John D. Hutson, who was the Navy's top military lawyer from 1997 to 2000 and is currently dean of the Franklin Pierce Law Center in Concord, N.H.
“If they are guilty, it is going to cause the Marine Corps to look at recruiting, training and leadership,” he said. “And convictions would cause a morale hit and a public relations hit. The Marine Corps is a very proud organization with many reasons to be very proud.”
Hutson worries that if the cases reach courts-martial, juries composed of the defendants' peers might acquit them even if there are strong indications of guilt.
“I hate to say it,” he said, “but the repercussions of a shaky conviction would be less traumatic for the Marine Corps than the repercussions it would face of acquittal in the face of overwhelming evidence.”
Like Solis, Hutson sees little that can be spun into positives. But unlike Solis, Hutson sees a political facet to the cases.
“No matter how they turn out, the (Bush) administration will take a hit. The hearings and possible trials remind people that the war is not going well,” Hutson said.
He believes the cases bring up images of the My Lai massacre, which conjures memories of the Vietnam War, and the administration has done everything to keep people from linking that conflict with the Iraq war.
“There is no way for the Marine Corps to spin this,” Hutson said. “It's just another bad news story for a war spinning the wrong way.”
TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; US: California; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: hamdania; hamdaniya; image; marines; pendleton; pendleton8
Hamdaniya defendants
Petty Officer 3rd Class Melson J. Bacos
Sgt. Lawrence G. Hutchins III
Lance Cpl. Tyler A. Jackson
Pfc. John J. Jodka Jr.
Cpl. Marshall L. Magincalda
Lance Cpl. Robert B. Pennington
Lance Cpl. Jerry E. Shumate Jr.
Cpl. Trent D. Thomas
To: All
2
posted on
08/27/2006 10:22:48 AM PDT
by
NormsRevenge
(Semper Fi ......Help the "Pendleton 8' and families -- http://www.freerepublic.com/~normsrevenge/)
To: NormsRevenge
"“No matter how they turn out, the (Bush) administration will take a hit. The hearings and possible trials remind people that the war is not going well,” Hutson said."
Which is exactly what the libs were hoping to do.
3
posted on
08/27/2006 10:23:04 AM PDT
by
Bigh4u2
(Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
To: NormsRevenge
“No matter how they turn out, the (Bush) administration will take a hit. The hearings and possible trials remind people that the war is not going well,” Hutson said. Afterall, that's what this is really all about, isn't it?
4
posted on
08/27/2006 10:28:41 AM PDT
by
FlingWingFlyer
(What changes do you intend to make to your lifestyle now that Pluto is no longer "a planet?")
To: Bigh4u2
GMTA! LOL!
Beat me by that...much!
5
posted on
08/27/2006 10:30:44 AM PDT
by
FlingWingFlyer
(What changes do you intend to make to your lifestyle now that Pluto is no longer "a planet?")
To: FlingWingFlyer
Well, you know what they say about 'great minds'.
:)
6
posted on
08/27/2006 10:31:58 AM PDT
by
Bigh4u2
(Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
To: Bigh4u2
Geez, How did I miss your 'GMTA'?
Maybe it's not so 'great'.
LOL!
7
posted on
08/27/2006 10:33:00 AM PDT
by
Bigh4u2
(Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
To: Bigh4u2
this is such a load of pc bullsh#t.
framed, posed, faux tography...some muslim propaganda...every civilian death even near a Marine will be a murder...or an atrocity.
we have set our Marines up with bullsh#t rules of engagement and hoping to undermine the discipline and moral of our Marine Brothers.....
keep a list of all the officers pushing this crap and just wait till they start running for office or trying to use this "investigation" as a feather in their bureaucratic run up the Pentagon gravy train...
I say destroy them like they are trying to destroy the Corp... along with that quisling Murtha and that other freak that ran for congress....also a fricking JAG LAWYER....
every jag lawyer should be a combat platoon leader for 2 years before taking his billet as a military lawyer...hopefully getting to know the men you are second guessing and using as stepping stones for your career will weigh on their conscious.
just thanks for getting my blood pressure up....
8
posted on
08/27/2006 10:34:54 AM PDT
by
Dick Vomer
(liberals suck......... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.)
To: NormsRevenge
I'm praying for their release from prison.
9
posted on
08/27/2006 10:38:05 AM PDT
by
Dubya
(Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
To: Dick Vomer
Yeah. I agree.
There are so many Clinton holdovers that there is no way our boys are going to get a fair shake, no matter what they do.
The 'I support the Troups' crap by the liberals is just that, CRAP!
I've already warned my kids that if their generation doesn't do something to reverse this PC trend, they are in for one hell of a bad ride.
I only hope they listen.
10
posted on
08/27/2006 10:38:35 AM PDT
by
Bigh4u2
(Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
To: NormsRevenge
Hutson worries that if the cases reach courts-martial, juries composed of the defendants' peers might acquit them even if there are strong indications of guilt. Talk about a hit piece. This writer Rogers and ex-JAG attorney turned law professor Hutson has everything figured out. Even if they're found not guilty they're probably guilty. That's a hell of a way to express the presumption of innocence.
11
posted on
08/27/2006 10:43:58 AM PDT
by
jazusamo
(DIANA IREY for Congress, PA 12th District: Retire murtha.)
To: Bigh4u2
Teach your kids, you are right. Our son rolls his eyes at the PC stuff, and he is in college. We laugh about stuff he hears, at dinner. And HE makes jokes about 'feminazis' and 'diversity-this-and-that.' It is a good solid generation coming up.
12
posted on
08/27/2006 10:49:51 AM PDT
by
bboop
(Stealth Tutor)
To: bboop
Well, one thing I do know is when ever I talk to my kids about any politician and their dumb statements, the first thing they usually ask "Is he/she a Democrat?".
There mind on politics is in the right direction but unfortunately their mind on 'Government handouts' isn't.
My wife and I have been trying to teach them that being 'self sufficient' is the only way to live and bring up their kids and not expect the government to give them things when they could just work a little harder themselves.
It's still a battle to get their minds around it, but I'm hoping to make some progress before it's my 'time' to go.
13
posted on
08/27/2006 10:55:17 AM PDT
by
Bigh4u2
(Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
To: jazusamo
"Hutson worries that if the cases reach courts-martial, juries composed of the defendants' peers might acquit them even if there are strong indications of guilt. Talk about a hit piece. This writer Rogers and ex-JAG attorney turned law professor Hutson has everything figured out. Even if they're found not guilty they're probably guilty. That's a hell of a way to express the presumption of innocence.
Yes, but this following statement leaves me speechless, especially from someone who is a "law professor?"
“I hate to say it,” he said, “but the repercussions of a shaky conviction would be less traumatic for the Marine Corps than the repercussions it would face of acquittal in the face of overwhelming evidence.”
Am I misreading this, or is he suggesting that it would be "better to have a conviction, even if not based on a preponderance of 'evidence' than to have an acquittal, though the are 'INOCENT'?"
Are we supposed to sacrifice the lives of these young warrior/heroes, based solely on International (not to mention Arab/Muuzie) opinion, when considering, there "opinions" should NOT count in our jurisprudence system--that is of course, unless you are Justices Kennedy or Ginsburg, which if this case should ever reach SCOTUS, they would probably site the Koran as interpreted by the Islamic Fundamentalists in Outer Mongolia or Bumf*cked Egypt.
Now if that is the height of PC hypocrisy and anti-Military bias, then I don't know what is!!!
14
posted on
08/27/2006 11:01:42 AM PDT
by
seasoned traditionalist
(ALL MUSLIMS ARE NOT TERRORISTS, BUT ALL TERRORISTS WHO WANT TO DESTROY OUR COUNTRY, ARE MUSLIMS)
To: NormsRevenge
“I hate to say it,” he said, “but the repercussions of a shaky conviction would be less traumatic for the Marine Corps than the repercussions it would face of acquittal in the face of overwhelming evidence.”So Hutson is saying, better to convict the Marines (and Sailor) so that the US military looks less bad, regardless of evidence.
Just what I'd expect from the Navy's top JAG-off from the clinton years. His pension is safe, and he can concern himself with something more important than flesh-and-blood men.
15
posted on
08/27/2006 11:05:21 AM PDT
by
300winmag
(Overkill never fails)
To: 300winmag
Message to the enemy: Illegal combatancy pays!!
16
posted on
08/27/2006 11:15:51 AM PDT
by
Wristpin
("The Yankees announce plan to buy every player in Baseball....")
To: Dick Vomer
After reading "Warlord", I have no confidence in the JAG corps to do a careful and unbiased investigation.
This is way too political in nature.
Our warriors should not have to be second guessing themselves every minute.
17
posted on
08/27/2006 2:04:14 PM PDT
by
arjay
(I would rather be right than consistent.)
To: All; sono; rodguy911; Peach; mware; tiredoflaundry; SoCalPol; sofaman; rightwingintelligentsia; ...
18
posted on
04/21/2007 6:56:23 PM PDT
by
AliVeritas
(Pray for Tony Snow, Liz Edwards, cancer patients, their families and support.)
To: AliVeritas
Thanks for the ping Ali, and the links.
The media could have pulled this in WWII and maybe
could have had some stories but war is not a gentlemen’s tennis game.
What ever the 8 guys did or did’t do, the Marines are the best of the best and always will be.
19
posted on
04/21/2007 7:19:35 PM PDT
by
SoCalPol
(Duncan Hunter '08 Tough on WOT & Illegals)
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