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To: kabar
1. Stalin created virtual prison for his people, starved to death a few millions. The Mullahs are not in the same league.
2. I don't know when you have visited USSR. USSR in 50's was a very different country than in 80's. When Stalin ruled and during early Brezniev days, foreigners were allowed in only under exceptional circumstances. [My grandmother had to wait more than a week to obtain permission to attend her mother funeral, as a result she didn't make it]. So I would be very surprised if you were able visit USSR during Stalin era.
So far I know the is no restriction on movement in Iran. Satellite dished may be destroyed, but their owners don't go to a labor camp in Siberia [in stalinist time a one-way ticket]
The Mullahs haven't starved millions as a result of collectivization program. And so on
I still claim that Stalin and Mullahs are not in the same league, as a result Iranian theocracy is not able to squeeze as much from their people as Stalin did.
I have never argued that Russia is a democracy. Russian people don't care enough. They prefer apathy. It's their choice.
I would argue, however, that you can't describe a country that was able to send a man to the moon, built aircrafts and invented for example Kalasznikow as a Third World. USSR was somewhere in between.
Iran on the other hand, if not for its oil revenue would be dirt poor like for example Jordan.
By the way even if you stay by you Soviet- Iran comparison. in its hey day USSR was able to finance one guerrilla war [there they were described as 'help for our brother-countries', in Russian it sounds equally stupid] at a time. Iran is fighting at least on two fronts.
50 posted on 08/25/2006 7:28:07 AM PDT by pppp
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To: pppp
1. Stalin created virtual prison for his people, starved to death a few millions. The Mullahs are not in the same league

A distinction without a difference. We can agrue about whether Stalin or Hitler or Mao or Saddam or the Mullahs represent the worst of mankind, but the point is that the Mullahs oversee a corrupt repressive regime that could acquire nuclear weapons and that would have an impact upon the region and the world.

USSR in 50's was a very different country than in 80's. When Stalin ruled and during early Brezniev days, foreigners were allowed in only under exceptional circumstances. [My grandmother had to wait more than a week to obtain permission to attend her mother funeral, as a result she didn't make it]. So I would be very surprised if you were able visit USSR during Stalin era.

I lived two years in Poland during the days of Solidarnosc and martial law. I visited the Soviet Union the first time in 1976 when I lived in Helsinki. The last time was in 1996. I have been there about a dozen times, i.e, Moscow and Leningrad [now St. Petersburg].

So far I know the is no restriction on movement in Iran. Satellite dished may be destroyed, but their owners don't go to a labor camp in Siberia [in stalinist time a one-way ticket]

You obviously did not read the link I provided you to the State Department's 2005 Human Rights report on Iran. Here is the section on freedom of movement:

d. Freedom of Movement Within the Country, Foreign Travel, Emigration, and Repatriation

The government placed some restrictions on these rights. Citizens may travel within the country and change their place of residence without obtaining official permission. The government required exit permits for foreign travel for draft-age men and citizens who were politically suspect. Some citizens, particularly those whose skills were in short supply and who were educated at government expense, must post bonds to obtain exit permits. The government restricted the movement of certain religious minorities and several religious leaders (see sections 1.d. and 2.c.), as well as some scientists in sensitive fields.

On January 25, according to domestic media, the revolutionary court announced that former deputy minister for Islamic culture and guidance, Issa Saharkhiz, was banned from foreign travel. Saharkhiz headed a press freedom association and was accused of giving interviews to foreign media, spreading propaganda against the country, waging psychological warfare, exploiting his position, misusing government property, and earning money illegally. According to domestic media on April 6, government authorities prevented Journalists' Guild head, Rajabali Mazrui, from leaving the country for a conference in Denmark; no reason was given (see sections 1.e. and 2.a.). At year's end the president of the Association in Defense of Prisoners' Rights, Emaddedin Baqi, was prevented from going to France to accept a human rights prize.

Citizens returning from abroad sometimes were subjected to searches and extensive questioning by government authorities for evidence of antigovernment activities abroad. Recorded and printed material, personal correspondence, and photographs were subject to confiscation.

Women must obtain the permission of their husband, father, or another male relative to obtain a passport. Married women must receive written permission from their husbands before leaving the country.

The government did not use forced external exile, and no information was available regarding whether the law prohibits such exile; however, the government used internal exile as a punishment.

The government offered amnesty to rank-and-file members outside the country of the Iranian terrorist group, Mujaheddin-e Khalq (MEK), and the ICRC assisted voluntary repatriation from Iraq. Approximately 300 MEK members have voluntarily repatriated.

I still claim that Stalin and Mullahs are not in the same league, as a result Iranian theocracy is not able to squeeze as much from their people as Stalin did.

Again, that is a distinction without a difference. That is not the focal point of our discussion, i.e., debating who is worse. I don't think the Iranian people care about such distinctions.

Iran on the other hand, if not for its oil revenue would be dirt poor like for example Jordan.

And if pigs had wings, they could fly. Iran does have major revenue from oil.

By the way even if you stay by you Soviet- Iran comparison. in its hey day USSR was able to finance one guerrilla war [there they were described as 'help for our brother-countries', in Russian it sounds equally stupid] at a time. Iran is fighting at least on two fronts.

I have no idea what you are referring to, but they supplied arms, weapons and advisors to the North Vietnamese while supporting Cuba and other communist movements and governments throughout the world. They were never just fighting one "front" at a time. The Soviet Union was a far bigger threat to the US than Iran is now. The real danger is asymetrical warfare and the use of non-state actor terrorist surrogates to employ WMD. Retaliation and deterrence then become much more difficult.

51 posted on 08/25/2006 8:35:41 AM PDT by kabar
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