Teacher Suspended For Hanging Foreign Flags In Classroom [Colorado]

ABC 7 ^ | August 23, 2006

[ncountylee]

A Jefferson County geography teacher was suspended on the second day of school for hanging several flags from other countries in his classroom at Carmody Middle School.

Eric Hamlin said the flags were part of a world geography lesson plan and refused to remove them. Hamlin was escorted out of class and Wednesday morning by the school's principal after he refused to remove the flags of China and Mexico.

The school district placed him on administrative leave, citing a Colorado law that makes it illegal to display foreign flags permanently in schools.

"Under state law foreign flags can only be in the classroom because it's tied to the curriculum. And the principal looked at the curriculum, talked to the teacher, and found that there was really no curriculum coming up in the next few weeks that supported those flags being in the classroom," said Jeffco Public Schools spokeswoman Lynn Setzer.

But Hamlin said although his curriculum may not speak specifically about those flags, they are used as reference tools for world geography.

"It's much along the lines of a science teacher who puts up a map of the solar sysem. They may not spend every day and every lesson talking about Mars, but they want the students to see that and to see the patterns of the planets and the order, and the students will observe that, and absorb that learning visually," Hamlin said.

Hamlin said that the school district is not only depriving him of a teaching tool but also taking away from his students' education.

"The major problem I see here is with the law that limits educators," Hamlin said.

"We have to uphold state law. We really have no discretion when it comes to upholding the law," Setzer said.

Hamlin said he understands that the district is following state law so he's met with the ACLU and he said, if necessary, he plans on fighting the constitutionality of the law.

[LasVegasMac]

Is this what your arguement in favor of not teaching kids basic things about the world has devolved to?

Typical Liberal crap.

Because I say "they don't need foreign flags in a classromm.."...

You say I'm in favor of "not teaching kids basic things..."

You are truly warped out there.

1) I don't care how you "feel" about it, or what you "think" is best.

2) You are intentionally ignoring the FACT that it is a state law.

Those nasty "facts" have a way of rudely interupting your "feelings" on reality, don't they?

Tsk tsk.

I'm sorry you are so slow on the uptake, the inability to recognize the FACT that state law does indeed, take front row to your feelings, or what YOU think is best.

Who give's a rat's a$$ what YOU THINK about the education system?

You think you are more qualified than the state of CO?

Wait, strike that question. I already know the answer.

"Feel" on, friend.

BTW, there is a great web site where you can share your "feelings" with other.....like minded, "you must acknowledge my feelings", souls.

Try www.DU.com.

Your feelings will be better received over there.

Bye.

[dandelion]

"STFU"

"Who give's a rat's a$$ what YOU THINK about the education system?"

Obviously you take this law very seriously, and you are to be commended for your passion. However, FreeRepublic is a forum, designed to stimulate conversation about conservative ideals. "STFU" is not conversation, it's not an argument - it's bullying, and no one else treated you anything remotely like that.

In this case, you are out of line here. There are many on this board who support the idea that the flags should be in the classroom - and I'll wager that MOST of them are not "DUers". Using profanity and bullying against other posters isn't your usual style, and it accomplishes nothing but harm. You have been known for intelligent conversation in the past... why the sudden vitriol?

[oh8eleven]

And you, oh8eleven, do you equate the Nazi Flag with the battle flag of the Confederacy?
WTF are you talking about? Take that chip off your shoulder.

[oh8eleven]

By your standards, teachers can't show a picture of President Bush unless they're teaching a lesson about him.
I'm glad you're only a pre-school teacher where your logic/thinking can do the least amount of damage.

[Surtur]

The curriculum doesn't have to be coming up in the next few weeks for a teacher to decorate a classroom with relevant objects.

In my preschool classroom, I hung up the Alphabet WEEKS before we ever went over any letters - because I wanted the children to be familiar with the letters.

Likewise, I hung up the color words, shapes, and the Seasons of the Year before we learned them - because the children learned them better if they had been exposed to them from the beginning.

And I left the Golden Rule posted on the wall ALL YEAR LONG, even though we went over it the first day of school - because the children remembered the material better if it was left in front of them to remind them.

As a homeschool teacher, I put up the Periodic Table, the Presidents of the United States, and Timelines all year long, long before the lessons are taught - because by the time my son gets to the lesson, he's already memorized part or all of the principal elements.

I disagree. None of the items you mention above have the socio-political component of flags of other countries, except perhaps the Golden Rule, and even that is debatable in its context. The fact that he chose to display just those two flags suggests he has an agenda that is not germane to his field of instruction at this point in the school year. The fact that you teach preschool is also a factor in your statements. Preschoolers need constant reinforcement of new ideas for them to become ingrained. By the time children reach middle school, they (should) have developed learning techniques that allow them to absorb knowledge without that constant reinforcement exposure to the idea to be learned.

[Surtur]

By your standards, teachers can't show a picture of President Bush unless they're teaching a lesson about him.

Let's see...

I can't hang up the Golden Rule unless I'm teaching it over the next two weeks?

I can't put up a picture of Abraham Lincoln unless I teach about him in the next month?

I can't put up a poster of the Statue of Liberty unless I'm doing a lesson on it, period?

If there is a law prohibiting the above, then if you did those things, you would be in violation of the law. We are discussing the breaking of law here, not classroom teaching techniques. If there is a law regarding certain aspects of classroom teaching techniques and you do decide to violate that law, then you will suffer the consequences. The good thing about a democratic republic like the USA is that we can address laws we disagree with by approaching legislatures and having said law changed or repealed.

I know more about the subject I'm teach than the Principal, yes - I'm the one he/she hired to teach it. If they simply want someone to spout their liberal mind-control political drivel, then they can teach it themselves. Because yes, they DO know way more about that than the average teacher.

I pray to God that the above in red was just a typo, or a mental hiccup, on your part.

[Surtur]

Your analogy is ludicris.

Uh, your use of ludicris is ludicrous. p.s. hope you aren't a teacher

[Surtur]

No wonder American public schools are a laughing stock with sentiments like this.

No, the reason American public schools are a laughing stock is that fundamentals of education like reading, writing and arithmetic take a back seat to indoctrination rituals of the liberal lunatics of the NEA and the AFT.

[TChris]

Looks like nothing but an ACLU set up.

Bingo!

Yet another liberal "test case". These cretins defile the judicial system.

[SoldierDad]

Well, if we were to do that, which we can't, the Islamo-facists like Bin Laden would love it. The one thing that makes the world a better place to live in, is having people from all cultures come into contact to learn about each other, share what each has to offer that is good, and find out what binds us together as a species. I hope we don't wind up isolated from the rest of the world.

[SoldierDad]

During the 1960's civil rights advocates violated many different laws written in many different states. These laws were disciminatory to say the very least. They were, however, the law. Would you advocate that these laws should never have been challenged simply because they were on the law books?

I don't have the complete story, yet, on this case. Maybe there is more to what the teacher did that justifies the school's response. But, if the only reason for his dismissal is that he displayed flags of other nations in his classroom (on geography), then I don't agree with the law and it should be challenged. If that challenge requires violation of the law, so be it.

[publana]

Come on, you can't be serious. I hope you don't think that kids learning the flags of at least some other countries (especially major ones) is somehow taboo. That's the kind of mentality that produces ignorant, altogether stupid high school graduates.

Amen. As seen by some of the posts on this thread

[SirJohnBarleycorn]

The teacher is permitted to hang foreign flags if it is related to curriculum he is actually teaching.

Let me repeat that: the teacher IS permitted to hang foreign flags IF it is related to curriculum he is actually teaching.

So, this sacred "right" you are so lathered about, consists of the "right" of the teacher, who is hired to perform duties in accordance with the policies set forth by the school administrators and the lawful governing authorities of Colorado, to hang foreign flags in his classroom when it is unrelated to his teaching lessons disobeying a specific state law.

This idiot teacher is wasting taxpayer resources and school administrators' time disciplining his stupid ass for this political stunt.

We have SO many real problems in the school, from lack of discipline, violence, gangs, drugs, left-wing indoctrination, NEA stranglehold on school policies, dumbed-down anti-American curriculum, etc etc.

And what you are worked up over is the imaginary "civil right" of a school employee to ignore state law and permanently hang foreign flags at times unrelated to the actual curriculum being taught.

This jerk of a teacher deserves to lose his job and he will also lose his "fight" to change this law. He is a loser.

You, sir, however are a winner. In a thread full of ridiculous hyperbole, you win the award for the most ridiculous hyperbole in a post.

The "civil right" of this school employee to hang foreign flags in a classroom belonging to the school when the flags are unrelated to his teaching lessons, is somehow on a par with acts of civil disobedience by blacks objecting to racial segregation in the 1960s?

ROFL!!!

[SoldierDad]

"The teacher is permitted to hang foreign flags if it is related to curriculum he is actually teaching. Let me repeat that: the teacher IS permitted to hang foreign flags IF it is related to curriculum he is actually teaching"

Sorry, I wasn't aware that you possessed such background knowledge of this case that you knew this "idiot teacher" was hanging flags which did not relate to teaching geography.

"So, this sacred "right" you are so lathered about, consists of the "right" of the teacher, who is hired to perform duties in accordance with the policies set forth by the school administrators and the lawful governing authorities of Colorado, to hang foreign flags in his classroom when it is unrelated to his teaching lessons disobeying a specific state law."

I'm making comments, as are many others, in an attempt to have a dialogue regarding an issue. I'm not "lathered" about this case. OTOH, having worked in public education for the past 12 years I an quite aware that classroom teachers are ALLOWED to place in their classrooms any device which assists their teaching of curricula. I am also aware that there is no prohibition on when or how long such devices may be displayed. Considering the nature of this teacher's subject, I'd say display of the flags of other nations is pertinent throughout the entire school year. There must have been something about the way he went about displaying the flags which cause the problem (as stated before I do not have those facts at hand).

"This idiot teacher is wasting taxpayer resources and school administrators' time disciplining his stupid ass for this political stunt."


This is as opposed to the waste of taxpayer money and the time of the administrators for disciplining someone for what may amount to a nothing violation?

"The "civil right" of this school employee to hang foreign flags in a classroom belonging to the school when the flags are unrelated to his teaching lessons, is somehow on a par with acts of civil disobedience by blacks objecting to racial segregation in the 1960s?"


So then, you'd like to see classroom teachers completely stiffled in their methods of teaching so as to comply with some inane and useless law some bureacrat decided was a good idea. As you mentioned before, teachers are faced with a multitude of societal problems. If his students are making progress through his method of using visual aids, then what is the problem. For all you, or I, know, he teaches a classroom full of students who belong to a group that had been denied access to appropriate public education during the past century. Hyperbole? Do you wish to deny children an appropriate education because some idiot bureacrat made such an inane law?

No, I'd say you've won the Hyperboly award.

[Hacksaw]

Looks like nothing but an ACLU set up.

Yep. The ACLU coffers always need a steady supply of tax dollars via legal fees. They seek stuff like this out. (And yes, the ACLU can get legal fees even if they eventually lose the case).

[SirJohnBarleycorn]

Superintendent Cindy Stevenson said Hamlin could have removed the flags, then appealed the principal's decision to higher administrators. By refusing to remove the flags, Hamlin was insubordinate, Stevenson said.

"He defied a direct, reasonable request from a principal. That's what's at issue here," Stevenson said.

Hamlin said, "There's no question I was insubordinate . . . I did directly tell my principal that I would not follow what he told me that I had to do.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/education/article/0,1299,DRMN_957_4940787,00.html

According to the article at the link, the teacher has about 50 flags and displays particular flags at various times when relevant to a specific lesson.

However, he was displaying three flags: the United Nations, China (PRC) and Mexico, on an everyday basis.

The principal interpreted that the permanent display of the three flags was over the line.

If I were the principal, maybe I would have had a different interpretation. If you were the principla, maybe you would have decided differently. But I am not the principal, you are not the principal, and this teacher is not the principal.

As long as the principal was acting in good faith, it's his decision to make.

A red flag here is the fact that the teacher HAD AN ADMINISTRATIVE APPEAL open to him, but CHOSE NOT to use it. That tells me this was a publicity stunt.

Your position seems to be that every school employee may ignore whatever laws and policies they don't personally feel like following if they somehow feel "stifled" by the rules.

[SoldierDad]

I hate repeating myself, but here goes. I DID NOT have all facts pertaining to ALL ASPECTS of this issue. I was making comments pertaining to the general issues at large. As I said, if there are aspects of what this teacher did that went beyond what I knew at the time, then the actions of the administrator may well have been perfectly reasonable. As you have now provided information which sheds additional light onto what took place, then I would agree that the administrative position may be firmly on solid ground. This may well have been a publicity stunt, and for that the teacher may well receive his just desserts. I hope we can reach accord on this issue.

[dandelion]

oh8eleven: you are simply being ugly and abusive. I have done nothing to warrant your hatred, and neither has anyone else on this thread - so I will assume that I have done nothing wrong, and that you are simply having a bad day. At least I certainly hope so; it would be a shame for someone to go through life filled with hatred and vile statements for people who disagree with them on little things.

Surture: yes, it was a mental hiccup. After I posted I was aware that I had left out the "ing" on the word "teaching". But I didn't correct; I have a lot on my mind right now. You see, I am waiting for a call from Iraq... my daughter had a very dangerous call-out yesterday, and I have been hoping to hear from her. Her military mentor was killed by an IED, after she herself came under mortar fire and ambush while out on EOD support.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ba8614f5f4b.htm

My daughter was supposed to go to college on her opera scholarship. But instead, with my blessing she chose to enlist in the military after September the Eleventh. Yes indeed, the person you patriots have been publicly castigating as a stupid, "public school", preschool teacher - an idiot who thinks flags could be used for a geography lesson - raised a soldier who at this very moment is risking her life in a very dangerous mission.

So while I sit here and wait for word from her, some supreme patriots on this board have taken it upon themselves to tell me - a homeschooling mom who has a daughter in the military - that I am not as holy, as patriotic, as good or as smart as they are - because I believe that flags could be used in a lesson for geography.

While you self-anointed American Heroes attack me for thinking differently than you do about education, my real American Hero is being attacked in Iraq, and I pray to God I hear from her again.

Thank you all for making it so clear what you think of me. I'll try to remember how worthless I am to all you holy ones while I make out my care package to my daughter and her team members in Iraq. God forbid that this stupid preschool teacher should ever think that she is as good as you...

[frankiep]

I see. So anyone who thinks something different from the nonsense you spout is full of "Typical liberal crap"?

I'm not intentionally ignoring anything Your Highness. However it seems that you are intentionally ignoring the fact that this is a discussion board, not a goose stepping "let's blindly support every single nonsensical and ridiculous thing the government says" forum.

Guess what pal, in case you haven't noticed there are a lot of really dumb, and dangerous laws in this country and.....it is ok to say that they are dumb without being full of, as you so eloquently put it, 'typical liberal crap'. If you say you don't recognize this then you are either lying through your teeth, or you are not worth having an intelligent discussion with.

Here's a question for you, do you think that it is right for the to force someone off of their property so that a strip mall can be built? Well guess what, our government says it's legal. Do you think that it is right that a handicapped person can be deprived of food and water for the sole purpose of ending her life? Yep, the government said that's legal too. It's good to know that you will bow down and blindly support whatever it is that a beaureaucrat says. I know that these comparisons are a stretch in this situation, but it no less ridiculous than the arguement (or should I say insults) you are making.

I would say more to you, but I don't plan on getting myself banned.

[oh8eleven]

So while I sit here and wait for word from her, some supreme patriots on this board have taken it upon themselves to tell me - a homeschooling mom who has a daughter in the military - that I am not as holy, as patriotic, as good or as smart as they are - because I believe that flags could be used in a lesson for geography.

You've not only totally misconstrued the argument (i.e., the principal does know better than you), you had to drag in your daughter's military service to further enhance your status as a "victim."

Like I said, I'm glad you're only a preschool teacher to keep the damage to a minimum.