Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Restoring Jefferson's reputation
BBC News ^ | 220806 | David Cannadine

Posted on 08/22/2006 6:26:18 AM PDT by AdAstraPerArdua

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-24 next last

1 posted on 08/22/2006 6:26:19 AM PDT by AdAstraPerArdua
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: AdAstraPerArdua

a favorite quote of mine.

President John F. Kennedy welcomed forty-nine Nobel Prize winners of the Western Hemisphere to the White House in 1962, saying, "I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone."


2 posted on 08/22/2006 6:29:05 AM PDT by Syberyenta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdAstraPerArdua
For the comments section: the atheist posters are so disgusting in that they will use practically anything to attack Christianity (the British airport/liquid explosive thing: stop religion, etc.).

The ideals of the Enlightenment were somewhat good. Some people today are so blind in not recognizing that if they actually supported the Enlightenment, then they would accept criticism of Macroevolution as much as they would of Creationism, and would not try to stifle useful debate.

3 posted on 08/22/2006 6:30:45 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( http://www.answersingenesis.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdAstraPerArdua
BBC link with the comments: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/5264712.stm .
4 posted on 08/22/2006 6:32:02 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( http://www.answersingenesis.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdAstraPerArdua

Jefferson was a fine amateur architect, excellent rhetoritician and cabinet maker. He was the most overrated president we ever had and a fanatical opponent of the political economy which led to America's greatness. His opposition to Hamilton's program shows he was clueless wrt economics and finance or hypocritical beyond compare.

After over a century of inappropriate lionization it is about time his actions were examined as well as his words. No one SOUNDED better then there is practice.


5 posted on 08/22/2006 6:34:46 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AdAstraPerArdua

The only thing I can say about TJ is: Thank god for Hamilton.


6 posted on 08/22/2006 6:40:05 AM PDT by ChadGore (VISUALIZE 62,041,268 Bush fans. We Vote.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: justshutupandtakeit

As a Brit, I hate it when commentators from the BBC exude the author's condescending and fatuous attitude. That the author knows little about Jefferson is clear from his tracing of Jefferson's Sally problem to 1998! The rumor was voiced by that scandalmongerer Callender soon after Jefferson won his first term as President. Moreover,
Fawn Brodie's controversial book that kicked off the latest round of speculation concerning Jefferson's exploitation of his slaves was published in 1974 not 1998.
FWIW, I agree that Jefferson is overrated. What is interesting is to see how his contemporaries viewed him: Hamilton certainly saw him as a vain, ambitious, conniving, backstabbing, manipulative and cowardly opportunist, who talked high principles but operated in a seedy and under-handed way. He was definitely smart like his namesake WJC. Alas their characters also are on a par.

I agree that Hamilton was a far more accomplished politician and economic policy maker - even though he also had fairly significant character blemishes.


7 posted on 08/22/2006 7:08:59 AM PDT by bjc (Check the data!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: justshutupandtakeit
I agree -- Hamilton's vision for America was superior to Jefferson's. A nation of autodidact gentlemen farmers, supported by slave labor, is hardly a model of the perfect society.

One of Jefferson's biggest shortcomings was his failure to recognize the French Revolution for what it truly was. Long after that revolution had begun to eat its own, he defended it, and as Washington's Sec. of State, almost to the point of treason (i.e., the "Citizen Genet" affair). A very good book on this topic is Conor Cruise O'Brien's The Long Affair.

8 posted on 08/22/2006 7:18:34 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Republicam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: AdAstraPerArdua
I wasn't aware that Jefferson's reputation has been substantially tarnished in recent years. Certainly, the allegations regarding an affair with his deceased wife's half-sister, Monticello slave Sally Hemings, have been viewed skeptically by many historians and geneticists.

Among Jefferson's notable accomplishments during his presidency were the Louisiana Purchase, the funding of the Lewis & Clark Expedition, and the ban on the importation of slaves. And, of course, he was an early opponent of Islamic fascists (aka the Barbary pirates), deploying the U.S. Navy to battle them in Tripoli and elsewhere. For these reasons alone, he deserves a high ranking among past presidents, despite his agrarian instincts.
9 posted on 08/22/2006 7:36:46 AM PDT by riverdawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus

O'Brien's book is an interesting one. Be sure and read his book on Burke which I think is the capstone of his political conversion.


10 posted on 08/22/2006 7:40:51 AM PDT by KC Burke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: bjc
"That the author knows little about Jefferson is clear from his tracing of Jefferson's Sally problem to 1998!"

To be fair, the article says that "... in 1998 a great controversy was aroused ...", suggesting that it (the controversy) was dormant until the November 1998 article in the science journal Nature appeared with DNA evidence linking the Y chromosome in male Jeffersons to some (but not all) of Sally Hemings' descendants. (As an aside, the headline on the Nature article is not supported by the scientific evidence contained in the article.)
12 posted on 08/22/2006 7:50:16 AM PDT by riverdawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: riverdawg

Point taken, though I would still say that the controversy had been bubbling along most recently since Brodie's 1974 book and had been written about constantly since then by almost all commentators on Jefferson. You are right however in that Jefferson's defenders vociferously objected to the charge until the DNA results when they became more muted - though my recollection is that the DNA tests by their design could only demonstrate an affinity not a match.

However, my basic point is that for an author and historian of some note, Mr Cannadine is somewhat loose with his facts and simplistic in his judgements.


13 posted on 08/22/2006 8:37:56 AM PDT by bjc (Check the data!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: bjc

Actually my beef with Jefferson has little to do with Sally Hemmings. Sally was the half sister of his deceased wife and I have no doubt that her relationship with Jefferson was one of love not exploitation. Jefferson's life was lonely and sad after Martha's death and he honored his promise to her not to re-marry.

Callender was a hired gun whom Jefferson assisted when he was attacking his enemies but who turned on J after feeling insufficiently rewarded for his hatchet work. After turning on J he was found drowned in a few feet of water.

Hamilton's relationship with Maria Reynolds probably prevented him from becoming President. Its revelation by his political enemies provoked a damaging response wherein H told the whole tale to the whole world. It almost led to a duel between him and James Monroe who had possession of the damaging information, pretended it would not be revealed and forwarded it to Jefferson.
Jefferson's minions released it while the Sage held up his hands to show him guiltless of any involvement. This was SOP for him preferring to avoid any direct conflict and work behind the scenes through unsavory characters such as Beckley.

Hamilton was much the greater statesman. By the end of George Washington's life he refused to allow the name of Jefferson be mentioned in his presence he despised him so strongly. Hamilton, on the other hand, maintained Washington's highest esteem to the end.


14 posted on 08/22/2006 8:40:50 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus
I also liked the Long Affair. In addition, Chernow's book has some marvellously ascerbic descriptions of Jefferson through Hamilton's eyes. Hitchens' book is also OK, though as with Cannadine, he is enamored by Jefferson the secularist rather than Jefferson as a leader and a man.
15 posted on 08/22/2006 8:45:22 AM PDT by bjc (Check the data!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus

Jefferson fanaticism has been deliberately downplayed and excused for two centuries by a fawning academia while Hamilton has been the victim of slander and lies claiming him a monarchist and hater of the common man. In actual fact, his program strengthened the conditions necessary for the poor to succeed and he spent almost his entire adult life fighting for the USA's independence and s

Jefferson was an efete snob who represented the only aristocracy, the Southern planters, this nation ever had. Hamilton was a self-made man with no personal wealth to support him just his brain. He was illegitimate and early orphan through desertion and his mother's death born on a tiny Caribbean island.


16 posted on 08/22/2006 8:56:04 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Cincinatus
Jefferson fanaticism has been deliberately downplayed and excused for two centuries by a fawning academia while Hamilton has been the victim of slander and lies claiming him a monarchist and hater of the common man. In actual fact, his program strengthened the conditions necessary for the poor to succeed and he spent almost his entire adult life fighting for the USA's independence and s

Jefferson was an effete snob who represented the only aristocracy, the Southern planters, this nation ever had. Hamilton was a self-made man with no personal wealth to support him just his brain. He was illegitimate and early orphan through desertion and his mother's death born on a tiny Caribbean island.
17 posted on 08/22/2006 9:10:43 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: justshutupandtakeit

I think we are in violent agreement on the flaws in Jefferson's character. Jefferson was, like WJC, an hypocrite.


18 posted on 08/22/2006 9:12:34 AM PDT by bjc (Check the data!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: bjc

It is sad to have to say that. As my knowledge of Jefferson increased my regard diminished.


19 posted on 08/22/2006 9:32:25 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: ChadGore

Thank God for Burr. If he had just done it years earlier.


20 posted on 08/22/2006 5:29:36 PM PDT by Rifleman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-24 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson