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As the Auto Age Dawned, Gasoline Wasn't King
Washington Post ^ | August 13, 2006 | Steven Levingston

Posted on 08/19/2006 7:56:28 PM PDT by nicollo

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To: Campion; Paleo Conservative
Good discussion about diesel/gasoline. I agree that ethanol is no solution. See today's (com) Post article on Brazilian "energy independence":
Brazil's Road to Energy Independence
With a national program that has cost that country untold wealth and waste over the last 30 years, they've only managed to replace 40% of gasoline use. Worst, the petroleum equilibriuim that the article lauds has come from new oil finds, not less use.
61 posted on 08/20/2006 7:13:22 AM PDT by nicollo (All economics are politics)
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To: nicollo
they've only managed to replace 40% of gasoline use

They managed to replace that much gasoline because because they primarily use diesel for transportation fuel. Ethanol provides about 15% of their fuel needs.

Brazil Sugar Ethanol Update – February 2006, USDA Foreign Agricultural Service

Brazil gained their energy independence the same way we should, by producing their resources. The crude oil production is nearly 8 times what it was 25 years ago.

International Petroleum Production Tables

62 posted on 08/20/2006 8:17:04 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Centurion2000
"Steam powered automobiles would probably be a LOT cheaper to manufacture as the tolerances required are not nearly as fine. Plus they could use crude oil directly in the boilers .. or anything else liquid that burned."

Wouldn't need to be liquid, as they have pelletized solid-fuel handling equipment, now, as well. This stuff is used in wood and coal-burning stoves, currently. Steam-powered autos would still have safety problems, of course. Smack one hard enough to rupture the boiler, and I bet it would be bad news all around. Still worth looking into, though. Good engineers could probably solve most, if not all, of the problems.
63 posted on 08/20/2006 8:53:13 AM PDT by Old Student (We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
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To: thackney

good post.


64 posted on 08/20/2006 9:40:01 AM PDT by nicollo (All economics are politics)
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To: thackney

But dollars per mile are only part. I have 5 kids. There is a reason for minivans, and pickup trucks.

Of course we used to by 9 seat station wagons, but that class was destroyed by a raise taxes. A 9 seat station wagon chassis gets taxed at a higher rate than the larger, heavier Minivan truck chassis.


65 posted on 08/20/2006 10:55:33 AM PDT by donmeaker (If the sky don't say "Surrender Dorothy" then my ex wife is out of town.)
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To: nicollo
"Estimates based on the most complete data now available place the end of our gasoline supply between ten and twenty years, with the odds in favor of ten rather than twenty," Killeffer, secretary of the New York division of the American Chemical Society, wrote in the New York Times. The year was 1925.

Gee. Nailed that one, eh. Just like Weird Algore predicted Global Warming would destroy the earth in ten year. Just don't point out to him that he made that prediction 15 years ago.

66 posted on 08/20/2006 10:59:37 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: operation clinton cleanup

That's not to mention the flies.


67 posted on 08/20/2006 11:16:47 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: nicollo

When I'm weary, down and out, I'll remember to practice my "strenuousity"... :)


68 posted on 08/20/2006 11:33:19 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Larry Lucido

BTU/pound


69 posted on 08/20/2006 11:34:06 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Larry Lucido

The real problem was that they put diesel cylinder heads on an otherwise near-stock gasoline block; like playing baseball with eggs.


70 posted on 08/20/2006 11:36:00 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Erasmus

Back then, driving a car was an adventure, not a chore.


71 posted on 08/20/2006 11:39:58 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: supercat

You just described a fuel dragster engine; high-pressure fuel pump to feed the injectors and a roots blower to cram the air in alongside the fuel.

Great horsepower, lousy fuel mileage.


72 posted on 08/20/2006 11:44:27 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: nicollo

Did you ever see a lonely hackney driver with a tailpipe burn?


73 posted on 08/20/2006 11:53:31 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: nicollo

The real problem now, as I see it, is the cocaine addiction to fuel taxes by state and federal governments : they don't WANT innovative CxHx answers, or any of several possible alternate energy answers. The energy picture is JUST FINE with them the way it is are now, GET THE MONEY, and, DON'T ROCK THE GRAVY DISH is their mindset. Fuel taxes is their SACRED CASH COW, like cows in India : not to be touched. But history will one day catch up to them, oil power will join steam power as a minor part of the energy equation. The only question I have is : will it take armaggedon to wake them up to their GREED, and the consequences thereof?


74 posted on 08/20/2006 1:11:02 PM PDT by timer
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To: timer

Do you honestly believe those taxes and royalties would not be replaced by something else we would also ultimately pay?


75 posted on 08/20/2006 1:19:52 PM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: timer; thackney

Fuel taxes go to the states to pay for roads, with a ten percent skimming by the Feds for the bureaucracy and another I-don't-know-how-much diverted to mass transit and various eduction, fulfillment, DWI, safety, etc. "programs" around the country. Tires, diesel and heavy truck sales are taxed as well. And yes, its heavy pork. You should read the appropriation sometime: amazing. It's kinda like the AOL web searches database -- just about anything goes.

Thackney is right: even if petrol is phased out, they'll find something to tax. Your argument is actually one used against tolls: if every road was pay-as-you-go what'd be the use for fuel taxes? (They get rid of them.... not.) Also, if automobile haters had their way, there'd be none of that juicy fuel tax cash to build light rail.

I don't see any objection from the tax-addicts in phasing into alcohol or bio-diesel. Electricity and fuel cells are more complicated from that point of view. Anyway, I really don't see tax policy as driving this question.


76 posted on 08/20/2006 3:16:34 PM PDT by nicollo (All economics are politics)
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To: thackney; nicollo

What if you had independent energy sources for your car and home that were not CxHx or other taxable commodities? How then would they get your money or other valuables? With a gun? A cop/taxman is a guy with a gun who takes money from people, yes? A high energy density electric battery would go a long way towards doing that independent energy source, Dr Mills of blacklightpower.com claims to have developed just such a battery.


77 posted on 08/20/2006 3:31:12 PM PDT by timer
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To: Old Professer
lol! Yeah, but I thought that the practitioners of strenuosity never get down and out...

They sure don't get tailpipe burn...

... at least not after 1910.

78 posted on 08/20/2006 3:34:44 PM PDT by nicollo (All economics are politics)
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To: nicollo

LOW OIL This Should Help Explain It All...

A lot of folks can't understand how we came to have an oil shortage here in our country.

Well, there's a very simple answer. Nobody bothered to check the oil. We just didn't know we were getting low. The reason for that is purely geographical. Our OIL is located in: Alaska California Coastal Florida Coastal Louisiana Kansas Michigan North Dakota Oklahoma Pennsylvania Texas Wyoming

Our DIPSTICKS are located in Washington DC

Any Questions?


79 posted on 08/20/2006 3:37:07 PM PDT by Gone_Postal (government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take it away)
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To: timer

So, who's gonna pay for the roads once Dr. Mills escapes with his patent from the dungeon over at Exxon/Mobil?


80 posted on 08/20/2006 3:37:41 PM PDT by nicollo (All economics are politics)
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