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To: Phsstpok; dsc
I was reading your conversation and felt that I could be of some service in clearing up this particular argument regarding info found at Fordham's website. Incidentally arguments about the relative orthodoxy and loyalty to the Church on the part of the Jesuits doesn't really hold water. For the simple reason that you can also find Jesuits sources that totally gloss over negative aspects of the Church's history. It's better in the case to analyze the content and either discredit it on a factual basis or accept it.

This is from a web page at Fordham University:
In the spring of 1492, shortly after the Moors were driven out of Granada, Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain expelled all the Jews from their lands and thus, by a stroke of the pen, put an end to the largest and most distinguished Jewish settlement in Europe. The expulsion of this intelligent, cultured, and industrious class was prompted only in part by the greed of the king and the intensified nationalism of the people who had just brought the crusade against the Muslim Moors to a glorious close.

Actually no part of it was prompted by greed, unlike in the case of the English king during the English expulsion, Ferdinand didn't owe much to his Jewish creditors at the time, in fact he stood to lose lots of money doing it as many of his economic advisers were Jewish. He himself admitted that he was worried about how much money the kingdom, and himself personally, would lose through the expulsion. But it was considered necessary for the safety and peace of the realm.

The real motive was the religious zeal of the Church, the Queen, and the masses. The official reason given for driving out the Jews was that they encouraged the Marranos to persist in their Jewishness and thus would not allow them to become good Christians.

The official reason is not quite accurate, but it does shed light on the real problem for which the Expulsion was supposed to be a solution. First however it's important to understand the difference in terms used, (dictionary.com btw is no use because it's definition of converso is simply wrong.) A converso is someone who converted from either Judaism or Islam but it does not imply 'false convert.' The term Marranos is usually used for a false converso. Whether or not the Jews still in Spain were actively trying to bring conversos back to the old faith doesn't really matter. As long as there was the suspicion that the conversos were not genuine there were problems. Anyone who wanted to ruin the reputation of an enemy for example could accuse him of being a false converso, a marrano. And there were occasions in which they would even hire unscrupulous Jews to testify against them. The problem was a major one, the inquisition was bogged down with literally thousands upon thousands of bogus investigations. The solution that the crown came up with was that by separating the Jews from Spain they would eventually solve the problem. Once they were gone it was assumed that the suspicion of the conversos would end. Was it fair? Absolutely not, it was an overly harsh solution. But, if you're a Christian prince in the middle ages you naturally put your Christian subject, including conversos, before any others. It was perhaps the cruelest act of an otherwise great queen. But even still, putting it in context it could have been worse, the Jews were after all given 4 months to collect what they needed for the trip, during which they were under royal protection. In any case it's nonsense to compare the Expulsion, however harsh it was, to the deliberate genocide enacted by true and committed antisemites.

148 posted on 08/20/2006 3:28:39 AM PDT by BarbaricGrandeur
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To: BarbaricGrandeur

"For the simple reason that you can also find Jesuits sources that totally gloss over negative aspects of the Church's history."

I didn't say that the Jesuits had always been enemies of the Church, just that they are now. And your note bears that out.


152 posted on 08/20/2006 10:21:03 AM PDT by dsc
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