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Defense attorneys outraged as terror case switches to fraud (Michigan Mackinac Bridge case)
The Saginaw News ^ | Thursday, August 17, 2006 | JOE SNAPPER

Posted on 08/17/2006 9:15:23 PM PDT by idsujmxzcg

BAY CITY -- Lawyers for three Texas men once accused of plotting to blow up the Mackinac Bridge claim the government is bailing out an overzealous prosecutor by bringing unprecedented charges.

Until Wednesday, even the FBI said the business of buying and altering cell phones -- as the men claim was their only motive -- was a legal enterprise, and that the only issue was whether proceeds end up in terrorist coffers.

But now, the FBI and U.S. attorneys in Bay City say the entrepreneurial behavior of three Americans of Palestinian descent amounts to fraud, not terrorism.

<excerpted>

(Excerpt) Read more at mlive.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Michigan; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: carocell; cellphones; govwatch; jihadicellphones; jihadinamerica; libertarians; mackinac; michigan; terrortrials; terrorwar; waronterror
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To: vbmoneyspender

I agree that it may be a theory that some believe, but almost everything sells on ebay higher than what a person could buy at walmart or Frys.

Last year George Foreman grills could be bought up on sale at retailers and then resold at a 50% markup.

The guy's theory doesn't seem to be well thought out as he explain how unopened hard drives still sell for what some retailers are selling them for.


101 posted on 08/17/2006 11:59:43 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: ArmstedFragg

See my post #99.


102 posted on 08/18/2006 12:06:26 AM PDT by jonrick46
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To: FreedomCalls; idsujmxzcg; ArmstedFragg; All
TracFone is suing someone in Florida for doing pretty much what these gentlemen were alleged to have been doing. TracFone's complaint provides a fairly good insight into what these men were probably doing and why.

The Library of Congress is in the process of holding hearings and may, in part, decide whether locked cell phone unlockers are copyright infringers.
103 posted on 08/18/2006 1:00:19 AM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: conservative in nyc
To follow up, according to this blurb, although the folks in Florida (Sol Wireless) settled with TracFone, the US Federal District Court entered an injunction against Sol Wireless, ordering it to immediately and permanently stop unlocking TracFones.
104 posted on 08/18/2006 1:18:15 AM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: vbmoneyspender
"I think that many drives sell for more than their market value," on eBay, Garfinkel said in an e-mail interview with TechWeb. The only explanation: they're playing the possibilities, and expect there's data on some of the drives they buy.

Note to self: Next time Fry's has a hard drive sale, buy a bunch & put 'em up on eBay with this description: "You are bidding on a used hard drive from my home computer that I used for web surfing, email, Quicken, etc. You know, the usual stuff. It's served me well, and I never lost any of my precious data. But now I've traded up to a bigger drive..."

:-)

105 posted on 08/18/2006 1:49:07 AM PDT by jennyp (WHAT I'M READING NOW: Software Estimation: Demystifying the Black Art , by McConnell)
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Some of these groups of "innocent people" only lied to the cops, after all. No big deal. Innocent people do that all the time when they what they are doing is on the up-and-up.

Most of the people doing the buying probably have no idea what the buyer's intentions are and may think they are doing no harm since the only entity getting ripped is a big corporation. One thing they all know, even if what they do may yet not be expressly illegal, is that they are screwing somebody, even if that somebody is a corporation.

This isn't an 'innocent business.' The ones who are just selling to Joe Sixpack and not to some terrorist's middlemen are still buying a company's product, modifying it, and then selling that product as if it is new, using that company's 'good name'. If the phone malfunctions- perhaps due to the quality of the modification- the consumer may call the original manufacturer and eat up time and thus money complaining to customer service about the product, because they assume that company is responsible for it, and not the A'hole who modified it. So the manufacturer's plan of selling the product below their cost to better compete, intending to make up for the loss on the sales of minutes is short-circuited- they never get their investment back.

That's fraud- false advertisement- the end user is under the impression that it's a new Tracphone - it's labeled as such after all- but it's no longer what it is labeled. It's some generic chopped phone with some parts of unknown quality from who knows where, assembled and reprogrammed by someone who may or may not take care to do the work correctly, and sold by someone who won't be liable for the product if somehow the hijacked product becomes a centerpeice in someone's class-action lawsuit. In the right venue the legit manufacturer could still lose since the company has deep pockets and juries can be fickle.

The bogus cell phone company doing the selling is mooching off another company, "making" a product which he evades having to comply with all the regulations that the real original manufacturer did- he gets all the benefit of being a phone "manufacturer" with none of the risks, none of the licensing and other government fees, and few of the costs of assembly workers and component parts.

It is annoying that phone companies, printer companies and others engage in below-cost sales incentives where the loss is recovered by tacking it onto refill minutes or the cartridges, etc - at least you can still assume the product was made according to that company's standards and reputation, and use that reputation to assess which product will be the better one. You know if there's a problem they will deal with it with you because they need to uphold their reputation. But what I hate more than those enticing below-cost sales tactics are people who take advantage of another's hard work, who know what the deal is and then renege on it. Modifying the product to bypass the deal- the agreement to buy airtime implicit in that it's a product designed to work on one network- is reneging on the deal. It's fraud. It's unethical yet they are proud enough to defend it.

In addition, a company that has a good reputation for workmanship is going to be harmed when people modify their products and then sell them under that same name, using the good reputation of the makers to profit at the legal manufacturer's expense. The altered product may fail and make people reluctant to legitimately purchase other things the original manufacturer makes, or tell others that his name-brand phone or other product was defective, and can unjustly ruin the company's reputation.

(Not that having your product be preferred by four out of five professional terrorists is a desireable reputation.)

106 posted on 08/18/2006 1:51:10 AM PDT by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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To: conservative in nyc
Lexmark sued generic printer cartridge manufacturers for violating the DCMA by selling cartridges that worked with Lexmark's "secret handshake". After winning their initial case, Lexmark lost in the Sixth Circuit. Granick thinks the cell phone locks are similar to the "secret handshake".

It's like apples and oranges... while cell phone locks may be thought of as "secret handshakes," in function, they are designed not to be replaced by the consumer but to be an integral part of the machine. Printer cartridges are intended to be replaced.

The printer cartridge manufacturers also aren't selling their cartridges as "Lexmark" printer cartridges nor are they selling the printer. They are selling the accessories as generic products you add to the machine, not unlike you would add paper. The printer cartridge is designed to work in spite of the machine's built-in limitations - it does not remove those preset limitations or physically alter the machine.

107 posted on 08/18/2006 2:36:13 AM PDT by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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To: JeffAtlanta

Hey Jeff. I don't believe everything is terrorist related but I also don't want to bury my head in the sand. I don't know what is going on here. If that is hysterical...shrug. I have concerns there was more to this and just think that we should watch them closely.


108 posted on 08/18/2006 6:50:57 AM PDT by CindyDawg
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To: FreedomCalls

Receipts are not books and they do not indicate whether he ever paid taxes on his earnings.


109 posted on 08/18/2006 6:51:31 AM PDT by Boiler Plate (Mom always said why be difficult, when with just a little more effort you can be impossible.)
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To: ndt

Do you pay taxes?


110 posted on 08/18/2006 6:53:21 AM PDT by Boiler Plate (Mom always said why be difficult, when with just a little more effort you can be impossible.)
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To: FreedomCalls

Someone PLEASE tell me why an "unlocked" cell phone makes sense. I don't get it. I've read about it but don't understand it any better than I did before. I guess I'm just dense.


111 posted on 08/18/2006 7:49:08 AM PDT by RichardW
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To: Boiler Plate

"Do you pay taxes?"

More than most.


112 posted on 08/18/2006 7:59:47 AM PDT by ndt
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To: conservative in nyc

What advantage is there to my using another service than Tracfone's? How would that work exactly?


113 posted on 08/18/2006 8:05:22 AM PDT by RichardW
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To: ndt

So you are OK with these guys not paying them?


114 posted on 08/18/2006 8:31:08 AM PDT by Boiler Plate (Mom always said why be difficult, when with just a little more effort you can be impossible.)
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To: Boiler Plate
"So you are OK with these guys not paying them?"

Do you have any evidence what so ever that they are not paying them? Oh, thats right you're not a big fan of evidence.
115 posted on 08/18/2006 8:47:43 AM PDT by ndt
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To: RichardW
What advantage is there to my using another service than Tracfone's? How would that work exactly?

TracFone's service is overpriced for intensive cell phone users, like most prepaid plans, but their phones are cheap. And there is a definite advantage to owning an unlocked phone for people traveling overseas: These were GSM phones, which work around the globe. Incoming calls on many European phone networks, for example, are free. International roaming (including receiving incoming calls) on a major U.S. carrier, on the other hand, is very, very expensive. If you own an unlocked cell phone, you are free to buy a SIM card when traveling overseas and use the service that is cheapest to you. You change networks by changing SIM cards. And there are even some services that convert outgoing calls to incoming calls for a fee that is even less than what the local phone networks charge, if the network on which you are roaming permits free incoming calls.
116 posted on 08/18/2006 8:56:21 AM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: Boiler Plate
So you are OK with these guys not paying them?

On a fringe business like this, I don't really care. If you add up all of their expenses and how many ways they split the proceeds each is probably only making about $5,000 a year tops.

If paying taxes on reselling something really bothers you this much then you really should check out ebay and send emails to each of its sellers to make sure they aren't doing anything illegal.

Also, you could cruise the yardsales and make sure they are keeping proper books.

117 posted on 08/18/2006 9:01:21 AM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: piasa
Spoken like a lawyer for TracFone in their suit against Sol Wireless.

It's not clear that Congress ever intended to make unlocking cell phones illegal under the DCMA. Arguably, locking cell phones is as anti-competitive as forcing a printer owner to use a company's printer cartridges. The phone manufacturer makes the phone compatible with all GSM networks. The lock limits use of the product to Tracfone. What would the courts think if Microsoft bundled a browser into Windows that only allows users to set their homepage to MSN and blocks Yahoo!, Google and similar search engines? Clarity of the law in this area would be nice.

Trademark infringement is a different issue, but theoretically could be avoided by not advertising the phones as new and stating that they aren't Tracfones and covering up any marks.
118 posted on 08/18/2006 9:07:38 AM PDT by conservative in nyc
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To: piasa
That's fraud- false advertisement- the end user is under the impression that it's a new Tracphone - it's labeled as such after all- but it's no longer what it is labeled.

In the case of unlocking prepaid phones and reselling them it's BECAUSE it's been altered (unlocked) that people are willing to pay a premium for it. People certainly aren't under the impression that it's an unaltered phone (or they wouldn't be paying extra for them).

119 posted on 08/18/2006 9:10:08 AM PDT by Michamilton
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To: calex59
I don't for a minute believe people would buy trac phones without a battery charger and pay 18 bucks more than they could get them from Wal-Mart with a charger.

I thought I was the only one thinking about that one!

Could the FBI be so stupid as to miss that? Something stinks to high heaven about all these "coincedental" mass cell phone purchases. It ain't anywhere near a legitimate business enterprise.

120 posted on 08/18/2006 9:22:59 AM PDT by TChris (Banning DDT wasn't about birds. It was about power.)
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