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To: P-Marlowe
when you become President, you lose your first amendment free speech rights?

I speak from the view of the Jeffersonian republicans. Saint George Tucker, as professor of law at the College of William and Mary and one of the leading exponents of Jeffersonian republicanism, in 1803, published the first extended, systematic commentary on the United States Constitution after its ratification and later its amendment by the Bill of Rights. Tucker wrote, "Liberty of conscience in matters of religion consists in the absolute and unrestrained exercise of our religious opinions, and duties, in that mode which our own reason and conviction dictate, without the control or intervention [involvement] of any human power or authority whatsoever. This liberty though made a part of our constitution, and interwoven in the nature of man by his Creator." On the question of religious recommendations, Tucker wrote: “"The proclamation of the two former presidents recommending fasting and prayer, were of this nature; they were an assumption of power not warranted by the constitution, or rather prohibited, by the true spirit of the third article of amendments [the First Amendment]"

A government officer, employee or agent has no First Amendment or free speech right (or any other right) to assume any sort of jurisdiction, authority or power over the religion of his fellow man. God has absolute and exclusive authority, including the authority to use reason and persuasion, in matters of religion.

The civil governments of the temporal sphere have no legitimate authority whatsoever over religion, not even the "recommendatory" authority to issue religious recommendations to fast, pray, give thanks or express public humility via Executive or Congressional proclamations.
185 posted on 09/02/2006 1:09:47 PM PDT by MuddyWaters2006
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To: MuddyWaters2006; xzins; blue-duncan
Tucker wrote: “"The proclamation of the two former presidents recommending fasting and prayer, were of this nature; they were an assumption of power not warranted by the constitution, or rather prohibited, by the true spirit of the third article of amendments [the First Amendment]"

And Tucker was wrong. Nothing in Washington's proclamation was mandatory, it was simply a suggestion. Tucker himself forgot the words he wrote just a few sentences before, "Liberty of conscience in matters of religion consists in the absolute and unrestrained exercise of our religious opinions, and duties, in that mode which our own reason and conviction dictate, without the control or intervention [involvement] of any human power or authority whatsoever."

The Constitution does not prohibit the President from making such proclamations as he pleases. The president has the Liberty of Conscience guaranteed by the Constitution and as long as he does not compel any person to pray or fast, he can call for prayer and fasting anytime he so pleases. Those who are like minded will pray and fast and those who are not like minded are free to ignore the proclamation or to vote the guy out of office.

The power of the executive branch is delegated to a single man. That man does not give up his freedom of speech or his freedom of religion by simply taking an oath to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States. He is certainly free to ask America to join him in fasting and prayer. To take that away from the President is to take the presidency out of the hands of the man. That would be unconstitutional.

188 posted on 09/02/2006 1:20:28 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (((172 * 3.141592653589793238462) / 180) * 10 = 30.0196631)
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