[Fjord]

I would think that you and I have no idea what ECHELON does and does not harvest or monitor... it's all speculation, unless you happen to work with it, in which case I'd recommend silence, for your sake ;)

Here's the relevant quote from Tenet to Congress on April 12, 2000:

"I’m here today to discuss specific issues about and allegations regarding Signals Intelligence activities and the so-called Echelon Program of the National Security Agency…

There is a rigorous regime of checks and balances which we, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency and the FBI scrupulously adhere to whenever conversations of U.S. persons are involved, whether directly or indirectly. We do not collect against U.S. persons unless they are agents of a foreign power as that term is defined in the law. We do not target their conversations for collection in the United States unless a FISA warrant has been obtained from the FISA court by the Justice Department."

Now, I suppose he could be lying to Congress. I mean, one never knows. That doesn't make it OK for Bush to do it though. For crying out loud, what the hell has happened to the Republican party? I'm a lifelong Republican myself. I even voted for Bush over Gore and Kerry. Honestly though, how can we all sit here and defend what this administration is doing to our civil liberties?

[jrooney]

Our first civil liberty is the right to life.

That seems to be forgotten allot. If POTUS wants to warrantless wiretap terrorists trying to kill my children, wife and the rest of my family, that is okay with me.

[letsgonova19087]

Honestly, I don't really know what the story is. It's likely that he formed those statements very carefully..."We do not TARGET their conversations for collection in the United States unless a FISA warrant.." perhaps they're not "targeted" but it just "happens" I don't know.

My understanding of the Echelon system is, and anyone correct me if I'm wrong, is a world-wide network of "listening posts" that literally harvests most of the world's communication and scans through it looking for particular phone numbers, e-mail addresses, or specfic phrases that would send up a red flag. If this characterization is correct, then do you really think it's possible that they recieve a warrant for every e-mail, voice message, fax, or telephone conversation they receieve?

I recommend "Body of Secrets" by (I think it was) James Bamford (or something like that)...and for the record I don't think he's very big on Bush.